Weatherboy

There was a post a while back where COInsider explained that in equipment downgrades, the CO process was to bump the people that no longer have seats and go from there. Ever since that post, I've tried not to get a seat in the last back rows of F, whether it's a elite upgrade or paid ticket, for that risk. I'm assuming that process is the UA process now although whatever the bumping process is, they should be soliciting for volunteers before the pull anyone off --including those left without seats. Why that didn't happen here (or why the things that did happen happened) are beyond me.

TWA Fan 1

Well, it's not clear what the UA process is, although, since the CO system (Shares) was adopted, it's probably some iteration of the CO process.

Plus, all the components (flight, planes, gates, personnel) in your debacle were PMCO.

Superguy

If US, with as bad as their IT is, can figure out instant ticketing, what does that say about SHARES?

star_world

That SHARES has nothing to do with it, since that's what US uses? Or that UA really doesn't care about this issue?

buckeyefanflyer

The agents were probably all PMCO. At many stations they are using the same PM gates and agents. At CLE UA PM aircraft use the same gates as they did before and the agents are PMUA agents, you can tell by their nametag. Same at ORD, PMCO aircraft and agents are PMCO and not mixed.
It should be standard procedure in a aircraft downgrade due to maintenance to ask for volunteers first and give them the max, hotels, meals. There were probably alot of passengers making International connections at EWR. Not a good situation to loose such a large aircraft at an outstation but there should be some plan when this happens.

gatelouse

I've been out of the UA loop for a while now but do remember a late-2010 PMUA handling of a downgrade from 772 to 752. That's a significant downgrade with lots of premium cabin and coach passengers to be denied boarding.

Having lost my upgrade due to the downgauge, I proactively offered to VDB and happily took the $400 for a later flight. I specifically requested a later 772 for a better chance of upgrade (got it) and even changed the final destination on the connection. The agents were more than happy to oblige. Plenty more folks were offered $400, and IIRC the flight departed almost on time and with more volunteers than actual VDBs. And did I mention that a third agent, who appeared to be a supervisor of some sort, was there and assisting throughout? That's how you properly run a downgrade. I was thoroughly impressed.

Sad to see that the new United has lost one of its strongest core competencies.

Superguy

Fair enough.

However, what does it say about UA/CO if US can still implement it and they can't?

santarosaflyer

On Sunday, I flew SFO-LAX-LHR. This is absolutely the most disorganized ground experience.

First, this freaking everybody is equal Zone 1 thing does not work. We are not CO. First class and everybody else boards at once. In an hub city this could mean over half the plane is zone 1.

Fortunately, at LAX they sued the old system - much better.

The original UA employees I encountered are very frustrated are very frustrated. In conversation with one yesterday, she reports that Jeff S was at SFO yesterday and she could not bring herself to speak to him. She says the CO had not have GS or 1K and that the ones she has worked with didn't even want to deal with them.

When I tried to check in on-line at the 24 hour period, the system would not let me do it. I called UA - first woman tried hard to do it manually. I got transferred to an obvious CO person - she did not understand why I would try to check in early. I told her it would improve my changes for the upgrade. Her attitude was like 'whatever'. The old system allowed it.

For the first time in six years my upgrade did not clear. The CSA said it is probably because they have been doing the same kind of sweeps. Waiting to see if they can sell. When I got to the airport,I was offered to buy up to first for $6650.

On the flight over, there was an announcement about being sure the landing cards were complete. I didn't have one so I asked the FA since I was sleeping maybe I missed them. She replied they didn't have any. Two minutes later, the FA on the other aisle was passing them out. Ours showed up a few minutes later with cards. I asked if she had been UA or CO? Guess what her response was?

Co doing business under the UA name. How many years was CO voted the best frequent flyer program.

TWA Fan 1

Yes, I think one of the most stark contrasts, at least in recent years, was the way both UA and CO handled IrrOps.

UA, reeling from years of union militancy and trying to redeem itself after gaining a reputation for poor service, went out of its way to compensate and accommodate passengers.

CO, on the other hand, had a philosophy that they would run as perfectly operating an airline as possible. In cases, though, where there were IrrOps, it was virtually a Wild West mentality with compensation and accommodation as little as they could get away with, and a customer complaint resolution center (1-800-WE-CARE) that was so hostile and indifferent to customer complaints, that it was almost a wonder why they even bothered having it.

For the most part, CO did indeed operate a smoothly functioning airline, but when there was trouble, it was usually sheer hell.

I think one of the differences now is that CO dba UA just became a far more complex operation, with a much larger operation, many more, different types of aircraft, and so a much greater likelihood than when something goes wrong, it's going to be more difficult to find a reasonable solution.

If I had to throw in my two cents, I would say that the PMCO management should take an open look at UA's IrrOps policy, not only for its effectiveness in resolving issues, but also for the goodwill it built up over the years.

There was a time when CO indeed had the best product and the best ff program, but the truth is they have been coasting on the fumes of the reputation earned under Gordon Bethune and since slowly, methodically and ruthlessly gutted by first Larry Kellner and then Jeff Smisek (both Bethune proteges).

I think the same applies to CO's reputation on Wall Street, where it has long been considered as the best managed carrier, despite obvious problems that have been creeping up for a number of years.

If nothing else, I think this merger will ultimately shatter the myth of CO's superiority, and will demonstrate that the CO corporate culture has numerous dysfunctions which, when applied to a bigger carrier such as UA, are bound to create problems.

sxf24

The situation, as described, is despicable. While mechanical delays are often unavoidable, there is absolutely no excuse for not honestly communicating information about delays and IDBs with passenger, no matter how difficult the conversation is. I'm particularly impressed that the OP managed to stick it out at the airport for the entire 6 hours; I would have given up and bought a ticket on another airline (and fought for reimbursement from UA).

That said, many of the posts here are no better than trolling. If people are stupid enough to believe some of the things the write on here, heaven help us if they ever need to assist in the event of an emergency.

anc-ord772

+1.

halls120

+2

Weatherboy

I received a call from a Customer Care Manager who read this thread, was extraordinarily apologetic, and said not only are the comments being shared with the highest levels of the company, but with the LAX agents for training too.

I was offered 25,000 MileagePlus miles -or- a $500 electronic travel certificate as a token of appreciation/apology for this mess.

I have 3 more UA flights booked in the next few weeks, so I'll see how things go. I had bought F tickets to Hawaii for the summer but cancelled them; I want to see how things evolve in the coming weeks before throwing more premium fare cash around.

J.Edward

Very disturbing to hear of this weatherboy. United, be it pmCO or pmUA, *cannot* let these kind of failure occur should they wish to continue to stay in business. Please do let us know what happens if you contact UA over this.Excellent posts and dead on, IMHO. ^
Perhaps no, but on some levels it does align. Kellner himself once referred to FT as CO's "early warning system" (DO III, IIRC @ the big meeting Saturday afternoon) where if the same issues came up multiple times here, chances were it would - if not already - come up from customers at large.

IMHO the friction reported here from inadequate policies, procedures, and IT support *do* transcend FT to the customer base at large (of course there are those that are "unique" to us as a community, such as the reduced mileage foul up, but again I don't think that's applicable here.)

UA-NYC

Well put, and I could not agree with you more - fixing this airline isn't just about "tidying up" a few small issues - there are some major systemic issues FTers have identified that the general flying public may not be aware of yet, but likely will be in the near future