Apr 23, 2013, 6:22 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Presented as Q&A format (Originally posted by Alex_B)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover, in addition to the destination, is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Other notes:
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover, in addition to the destination, is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Other notes:
- The open-jaw portion must be smaller (in miles) than any other leg. -While technically true for revenue fare construction this is not strictly enforced on awards.
- For awards between CONUS/Canada/Alaska and South Asia award regions the maximum number of segments is 5 segments each way on a round-trip and 4 segments on a one-way. (Note that many FTers report recently being read a memo that imposes an eight segment maximum on a roundtrip (4 each way). It is unclear whether this eight-segment maximum is limited to South Asia routings through Europe or North Asia, or has broader application.)
- Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
May 26, 2013, 8:52 pm
#1351
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,727
Is this because you believe there won't be availability or because you don't have the flexibility to wait and see if stuff opens up? If you have a UA credit card or are an elite you have better standard award availability so there isn't much rush to book.
It's legal, but UA.com can't handle it. My approach would be to book the trip with EWR-XYZ and then call in within 24hrs to make the change. You may get push back from agents but if that happens, hang up and call again.
No you'd need saver availability throughout from SXM-XYZ. This is because the way the "free one way" (a term I dislike) actually works is you price Origin-Destination and then Destination-Stop/Origin-Open Jaw. When the free one way is in the US then this doesn't matter as XYZ-EWR-ORD would price the same as XYZ to ORD. With open jaws across regions your SXM-EWR-XYZ would need to be a legal routing, and would all need to be in the same class of service and award type.
It's legal, but UA.com can't handle it. My approach would be to book the trip with EWR-XYZ and then call in within 24hrs to make the change. You may get push back from agents but if that happens, hang up and call again.
No you'd need saver availability throughout from SXM-XYZ. This is because the way the "free one way" (a term I dislike) actually works is you price Origin-Destination and then Destination-Stop/Origin-Open Jaw. When the free one way is in the US then this doesn't matter as XYZ-EWR-ORD would price the same as XYZ to ORD. With open jaws across regions your SXM-EWR-XYZ would need to be a legal routing, and would all need to be in the same class of service and award type.
May 27, 2013, 9:46 am
#1352
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,309
What rule is this? When did this come into force? Where can the rules regarding maximum number of segments be found?
I am curious as I do interesting itineraries that stretch the rules... right now I have YOW-FRA-HEL(stopover)-ARN-PEK-ULN(destination)-PEK-YVR and YOW-LHR-ADD-EBB(stopover)-IST-NRT/ANU(destination/openjaw)-YUL-YOW booked, so I guess according to the new rules I could not add a connection on the outbound on either of these as that would take me over 5.
I am curious as I do interesting itineraries that stretch the rules... right now I have YOW-FRA-HEL(stopover)-ARN-PEK-ULN(destination)-PEK-YVR and YOW-LHR-ADD-EBB(stopover)-IST-NRT/ANU(destination/openjaw)-YUL-YOW booked, so I guess according to the new rules I could not add a connection on the outbound on either of these as that would take me over 5.
May 28, 2013, 3:03 pm
#1353
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: San Diego, CA
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 130
Originally Posted by claurianta2
What rule is this? When did this come into force? Where can the rules regarding maximum number of segments be found?
What rule is this? When did this come into force? Where can the rules regarding maximum number of segments be found?
One thing I'm not clear on (there is conflicting information here and in the thread on segment limits) is if it applies over the Pacific ocean or only over the Atlantic? Does anyone know for sure? If so please post to the wiki
May 29, 2013, 11:40 am
#1354
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 12
Question about open jaw/free one way with United
I think I can do this, but just wanted to clarify. Can I book an international trip through United (but not on united metal), and then add a free one way out of another airport?
for example:
Leave out of Newark go to italy, then return to newark, and a month later leave out of LGA (for the free one way, and open jaw) and go to florida?
Thanks
for example:
Leave out of Newark go to italy, then return to newark, and a month later leave out of LGA (for the free one way, and open jaw) and go to florida?
Thanks
May 29, 2013, 11:55 am
#1355
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Jersey Shore/YYZ
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond, Hertz PC
Posts: 12,521
This discussion re: "free one-way" has to stop. Curse that blog for mentioning it.
Your proposal is EWR-FCO-EWR (stopover and open jaw) LGA-FLL.
Your proposal might not work, since you're returning back to your origin before you do the open-jaw.
Why not do EWR-FCO-EWR (stopover)-FLL - might be easier.
Your proposal is EWR-FCO-EWR (stopover and open jaw) LGA-FLL.
Your proposal might not work, since you're returning back to your origin before you do the open-jaw.
Why not do EWR-FCO-EWR (stopover)-FLL - might be easier.
May 29, 2013, 12:01 pm
#1356
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 734
EWR-FCO + EWR-MCO wouldn't be open-jaw.
It should be fine. There's two kinds of open-jaw. A-B/C-A and A-B/B-C.
Hypothetically, EWR-FCO + FCO-EWR-MCO would be open-jaw and EWR would qualify as a stopover on award travel. Maximum length of a stopover is often 30 days, but it's worth checking to see if it could be more or less than 30 days.
If it wasn't award travel, you could buy the itinerary, and the stopover at the US gateway should still be workable.
I think that EWR-FCO + FCO-EWR/LGA-MCO is workable if and only if EWR and LGA are still in co-terminal agreement.
Your proposal might not work, since you're returning back to your origin before you do the open-jaw.
Hypothetically, EWR-FCO + FCO-EWR-MCO would be open-jaw and EWR would qualify as a stopover on award travel. Maximum length of a stopover is often 30 days, but it's worth checking to see if it could be more or less than 30 days.
If it wasn't award travel, you could buy the itinerary, and the stopover at the US gateway should still be workable.
I think that EWR-FCO + FCO-EWR/LGA-MCO is workable if and only if EWR and LGA are still in co-terminal agreement.
Last edited by Long Zhiren; May 29, 2013 at 12:11 pm Reason: ROM isn't a real code. Two kinds of open-jaw.
May 29, 2013, 12:08 pm
#1357
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Canada
Programs: UA*1K MM SK EBG LATAM BL
Posts: 23,309
This discussion re: "free one-way" has to stop. Curse that blog for mentioning it.
Your proposal is EWR-FCO-EWR (stopover and open jaw) LGA-FLL.
Your proposal might not work, since you're returning back to your origin before you do the open-jaw.
Why not do EWR-FCO-EWR (stopover)-FLL - might be easier.
Your proposal is EWR-FCO-EWR (stopover and open jaw) LGA-FLL.
Your proposal might not work, since you're returning back to your origin before you do the open-jaw.
Why not do EWR-FCO-EWR (stopover)-FLL - might be easier.
UA would be entirely in their right to crack down on stopovers at point of origin.
However, I think EWR/LGA would be co-terminals, not an open jaw - and thus - this may actually work.
May 29, 2013, 1:05 pm
#1358
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Manchester,UK and NYC
Programs: One Pass, BAEC, AA
Posts: 708
BHX-EWR
ERW-BOS
openjaw
LGA-YYZ (12hrs in YYZ)
YYZ-CPH (9hrs in CPH)
CPH-ARN (23hrs in ARN)
ARN-DUS - will stay in Dusseldorf for 42 hours, so my ONE STOPOVER PERMITTED
DUS-MUC (22hrs in MUC) with LH
MUC-BHX with LH
Having booked the above for my sons, would I be right that I could add the following (at this stage I am aware I will be charged a $75 fee per ticket):
Instead of LGA-YYZ, connecting YYZ-CPH same day:
One day earlier: LGA-DCA (19 hrs in Washington DC)
next day: DCA-YYZ (14 hours in Toronto)
Thanks
ERW-BOS
openjaw
LGA-YYZ (12hrs in YYZ)
YYZ-CPH (9hrs in CPH)
CPH-ARN (23hrs in ARN)
ARN-DUS - will stay in Dusseldorf for 42 hours, so my ONE STOPOVER PERMITTED
DUS-MUC (22hrs in MUC) with LH
MUC-BHX with LH
Having booked the above for my sons, would I be right that I could add the following (at this stage I am aware I will be charged a $75 fee per ticket):
Instead of LGA-YYZ, connecting YYZ-CPH same day:
One day earlier: LGA-DCA (19 hrs in Washington DC)
next day: DCA-YYZ (14 hours in Toronto)
Thanks
Last edited by forextrader; May 29, 2013 at 1:40 pm
May 29, 2013, 1:51 pm
#1359
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Having booked the above for my sons, would I be right that I could add the following (at this stage I am aware I will be charged a $75 fee per ticket):
Instead of LGA-YYZ, connecting YYZ-CPH same day:
One day earlier: LGA-DCA (19 hrs in Washington DC)
next day: DCA-YYZ (14 hours in Toronto)
Instead of LGA-YYZ, connecting YYZ-CPH same day:
One day earlier: LGA-DCA (19 hrs in Washington DC)
next day: DCA-YYZ (14 hours in Toronto)
May 29, 2013, 2:17 pm
#1360
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 734
Technically, I'm not even sure if there is a fee since you're not changing origin or destination on the ticket, just the routing. If you're within 21 days, the fees show up again.
If it's an award ticket, a real question is whether award seats are available on the flight schedules that you want.
A problem that you run into is that technically, (1) any layover of more than 4 hours is a stopover unless you run into the minimum amount of time to find the next flight onwards, and then that layover doesn't count as a stopover. There's going to be a gazillion daily flights LGA-DCA and DCA-YYZ. (2) stopovers are supposedly on your route from origin to destination. LGA-DCA-YYZ is really kind of meandering off the route, as if the *A squirrely route didn't already do that.
Another question is just my question really. Stopovers are easiest at hubs. Does a stopover have to be at a hub/gateway? DUS stretches the definition of a hub already. Does DCA stretch the definition too far? I can see how *A is spreading you about at least three different carriers here.
Last edited by Long Zhiren; May 29, 2013 at 2:23 pm
May 29, 2013, 4:25 pm
#1361
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Changing carriers incurs a fee. LGA-DCA adds US into the itinerary so I think that would incur the fee. Obviously if they don't charge it then great, but I don't think it is necessarily going to be skipped simply because this is only a routing change.
And, because it is an international itinerary, the stopover breakpoint is 24 hours, not 4. That rule applies to all stops on an international itinerary, even domestic ones. There is no rule that you must take the first available flight, assuming the other options are valid in terms of timing.
And, finally, UA does not require stopovers to be at hubs. US technically does per their rules but even that is not well enforced.
And, because it is an international itinerary, the stopover breakpoint is 24 hours, not 4. That rule applies to all stops on an international itinerary, even domestic ones. There is no rule that you must take the first available flight, assuming the other options are valid in terms of timing.
And, finally, UA does not require stopovers to be at hubs. US technically does per their rules but even that is not well enforced.
May 29, 2013, 7:26 pm
#1362
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: So Cal
Programs: UA Gold/0.744MM, WN AL, Hyatt Diamond, MR Scum, Hertz PC, National Exec, Avis PC
Posts: 5,561
EWR-FCO + EWR-MCO wouldn't be open-jaw.
It should be fine. There's two kinds of open-jaw. A-B/C-A and A-B/B-C.
Hypothetically, EWR-FCO + FCO-EWR-MCO would be open-jaw and EWR would qualify as a stopover on award travel. Maximum length of a stopover is often 30 days, but it's worth checking to see if it could be more or less than 30 days.
If it wasn't award travel, you could buy the itinerary, and the stopover at the US gateway should still be workable.
I think that EWR-FCO + FCO-EWR/LGA-MCO is workable if and only if EWR and LGA are still in co-terminal agreement.
It should be fine. There's two kinds of open-jaw. A-B/C-A and A-B/B-C.
Hypothetically, EWR-FCO + FCO-EWR-MCO would be open-jaw and EWR would qualify as a stopover on award travel. Maximum length of a stopover is often 30 days, but it's worth checking to see if it could be more or less than 30 days.
If it wasn't award travel, you could buy the itinerary, and the stopover at the US gateway should still be workable.
I think that EWR-FCO + FCO-EWR/LGA-MCO is workable if and only if EWR and LGA are still in co-terminal agreement.
$75 is the fee for a change to an award ticket. And the squirrely route does look like an award route or the work of an MR guru.
Technically, I'm not even sure if there is a fee since you're not changing origin or destination on the ticket, just the routing. If you're within 21 days, the fees show up again.
If it's an award ticket, a real question is whether award seats are available on the flight schedules that you want.
A problem that you run into is that technically, (1) any layover of more than 4 hours is a stopover unless you run into the minimum amount of time to find the next flight onwards, and then that layover doesn't count as a stopover. There's going to be a gazillion daily flights LGA-DCA and DCA-YYZ. (2) stopovers are supposedly on your route from origin to destination. LGA-DCA-YYZ is really kind of meandering off the route, as if the *A squirrely route didn't already do that.
Another question is just my question really. Stopovers are easiest at hubs. Does a stopover have to be at a hub/gateway? DUS stretches the definition of a hub already. Does DCA stretch the definition too far? I can see how *A is spreading you about at least three different carriers here.
Technically, I'm not even sure if there is a fee since you're not changing origin or destination on the ticket, just the routing. If you're within 21 days, the fees show up again.
If it's an award ticket, a real question is whether award seats are available on the flight schedules that you want.
A problem that you run into is that technically, (1) any layover of more than 4 hours is a stopover unless you run into the minimum amount of time to find the next flight onwards, and then that layover doesn't count as a stopover. There's going to be a gazillion daily flights LGA-DCA and DCA-YYZ. (2) stopovers are supposedly on your route from origin to destination. LGA-DCA-YYZ is really kind of meandering off the route, as if the *A squirrely route didn't already do that.
Another question is just my question really. Stopovers are easiest at hubs. Does a stopover have to be at a hub/gateway? DUS stretches the definition of a hub already. Does DCA stretch the definition too far? I can see how *A is spreading you about at least three different carriers here.
1) Stopovers are not in any way, shape, or form limited to 30 days. I just booked a 9 month stopover for a friend at their origin without any problems.
2) As sbm12 has already pointed out, anything up to 24 hours on an international itinerary is considered a connection, not a stopover. 4 hours is on domestic tickets
May 29, 2013, 8:40 pm
#1363
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: LAX
Posts: 2,851
using free one way on Biz awards ticket
I have a round trip ticket on United. YVR-KTM for April 2014. Just want to ask if the free one way would be any departure from U.S/Canada/ Hawaii to YVR before the YVR-KTM segment.
Is this correct?
As there is one stop over and two open jaws, is there any other way to increase the itinerary for the same 120k...can i add another place in Europe/Asia?
Is this correct?
As there is one stop over and two open jaws, is there any other way to increase the itinerary for the same 120k...can i add another place in Europe/Asia?
May 29, 2013, 8:49 pm
#1364
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Jersey Shore/YYZ
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Plat, Hilton Diamond, Hertz PC
Posts: 12,521
A suggestion - stop using the "free one-way" lingo. It isn't helpful, especially to UA agents.
See here for more details.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...solidated.html
See here for more details.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...solidated.html
May 29, 2013, 9:07 pm
#1365
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: LAX
Posts: 2,851
I have read the rules. It basically talks about adding the segment with origin of a U.S. City. I am wondering if YVR (Vancouver, Canada) would also count as I have not read it anywhere.
Not sure how else to write it since many heard of the "free one way" which it isn't true. Bloggers killed the phrase.
Not sure how else to write it since many heard of the "free one way" which it isn't true. Bloggers killed the phrase.