Apr 23, 2013, 6:22 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Presented as Q&A format (Originally posted by Alex_B)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover, in addition to the destination, is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Other notes:
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover, in addition to the destination, is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Other notes:
- The open-jaw portion must be smaller (in miles) than any other leg. -While technically true for revenue fare construction this is not strictly enforced on awards.
- For awards between CONUS/Canada/Alaska and South Asia award regions the maximum number of segments is 5 segments each way on a round-trip and 4 segments on a one-way. (Note that many FTers report recently being read a memo that imposes an eight segment maximum on a roundtrip (4 each way). It is unclear whether this eight-segment maximum is limited to South Asia routings through Europe or North Asia, or has broader application.)
- Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Dec 8, 2013, 9:00 pm
#2491
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SAN
Posts: 1,396
Just realized SEZ-YYZ has one connection (ADD) and another "stop" in Rome - but it is a "direct" flight ADD-YYZ. That means there is no "stop" in Europe - which is probably what makes the difference.
Dec 8, 2013, 9:32 pm
#2492
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 163
Yea, I've kind of assumed that's what it is. I have a stopover at LHR.
What stops do you have SEZ-YYZ? I'm assuming you have at least one connection there, which makes your routing the exact same as mine - with the exception that your stopover is at DPS (on the "pacific" side of your journey) while mine is at LHR (on the "atlantic" side of my journey).
What stops do you have SEZ-YYZ? I'm assuming you have at least one connection there, which makes your routing the exact same as mine - with the exception that your stopover is at DPS (on the "pacific" side of your journey) while mine is at LHR (on the "atlantic" side of my journey).
Dec 8, 2013, 9:55 pm
#2493
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: SAN
Posts: 1,396
I think the reason this worked for you is because ADD-(FCO)-YYZ is a "direct" flight - so it doesn't really matter what ocean you cross or how ET chooses to route their flight.
Dec 9, 2013, 6:58 am
#2494
Join Date: Oct 2004
Programs: DL Gold
Posts: 880
EWR-YYZ-LHR (destination) (open-jaw)
BRU-EDI (stopover) (open-jaw)
MAN-ARN-EWR
This should be allowed, no? I have 1 stopover and 2 open jaws. I have the outbound and return held, and am trying to add the BRU-EDI leg. The computer is telling them it's not allowed. Twice now I've had trouble getting over the "open-jaw at the stopover" hump. HUCA?
ETA: It could be also thought of as EWR-YYZ-LHR (SO) (OJ) BRU-EDI (Dest) // (OJ) MAN-ARN-EWR.
BRU-EDI (stopover) (open-jaw)
MAN-ARN-EWR
This should be allowed, no? I have 1 stopover and 2 open jaws. I have the outbound and return held, and am trying to add the BRU-EDI leg. The computer is telling them it's not allowed. Twice now I've had trouble getting over the "open-jaw at the stopover" hump. HUCA?
ETA: It could be also thought of as EWR-YYZ-LHR (SO) (OJ) BRU-EDI (Dest) // (OJ) MAN-ARN-EWR.
Seems clear to me that their computers have difficulty pricing an OJ at a stopover. Dumb question, but how does manual pricing work? Do they still have to construct it on the computer and have it spit out a price, or does someone have the authority to look at an itinerary and type in "xxx miles required"?
Dec 9, 2013, 8:20 pm
#2495
Join Date: Oct 2004
Programs: DL Gold
Posts: 880
Success, finally! 7th time (and 2nd PNR's) the charm I guess. 
I particularly enjoy about 4/7 CSR's telling me that yes the rules says -One stopover allowed, and -Two open jaws allowed, but CLEARLY those rules mean you are allowed one or the other, not both. I did have a couple of GREAT supervisors throughout the process, however.
In the end, EWR-YUL-LHR//BRU-EDI//MAN-ARN-EWR. Hopefully some EWR-LHR and MAN-EWR direct space opens up at some point. Thanks to all on this thread who contribute such helpful knowledge and facts!
I particularly enjoy about 4/7 CSR's telling me that yes the rules says -One stopover allowed, and -Two open jaws allowed, but CLEARLY those rules mean you are allowed one or the other, not both. I did have a couple of GREAT supervisors throughout the process, however.In the end, EWR-YUL-LHR//BRU-EDI//MAN-ARN-EWR. Hopefully some EWR-LHR and MAN-EWR direct space opens up at some point. Thanks to all on this thread who contribute such helpful knowledge and facts!
Last edited by hotelmotel; Dec 9, 2013 at 8:26 pm
Dec 10, 2013, 2:10 pm
#2496
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: SFO
Posts: 6
Working on an award for a friend LAX-BOM-LAX. I know I can route him through Europe or Japan, but is it also legal to do a stopover in South Asia on the way to/from BOM? He might want to do a stopover at BKK instead of Europe or Japan.
Dec 10, 2013, 6:11 pm
#2497
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: LAX
Posts: 2,851
Hope this is the forum for my question. If not moderator feel free to re-route this.
Would like to use 120k for Biz awards ticket for the following route. Please let me know if it is a legal routing.
LAX-JFK-ICN-KIX (stopover)
HND- HKG (destination)
HKG-TPE-LAX OR HKG-ICN-JFK-LAX
If it is legal routing than will piece together all segments for CSR at United Airlines. Instead of 120k for trip , will add additional 7k miles more for JFK-ICN on Asiana First class suite. Rest on biz class
TIA
Would like to use 120k for Biz awards ticket for the following route. Please let me know if it is a legal routing.
LAX-JFK-ICN-KIX (stopover)
HND- HKG (destination)
HKG-TPE-LAX OR HKG-ICN-JFK-LAX
If it is legal routing than will piece together all segments for CSR at United Airlines. Instead of 120k for trip , will add additional 7k miles more for JFK-ICN on Asiana First class suite. Rest on biz class
TIA
Dec 12, 2013, 11:22 am
#2498
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,114
I have several separate one-ways booked in J and wondering if some can be combined into round-trips to add stop-overs or just maximize the value.
1) Jan: EWR-FRA-LOS-JNB-LVI
2) Feb: GVA-FRA-EWR
3) Jun: LGA-YUL-MUC-KBP
I've been contemplating changing:
- 1) and 2) to EWR-FRA-LOS-JNB-CPT (stop)//JNB-HKG (dest)//HKG-???-NYC
- or 2) and 3) to GVA-FRA-EWR (dest) //JFK-FRA-KBP (stop)//KBP-IST-NRT
- or adding return leg to 3) to LGA-YUL-MUC-KBP (stop)//KBP-IST-NRT (dest)//NRT-???-NYC
Are any of these legal?
1) Jan: EWR-FRA-LOS-JNB-LVI
2) Feb: GVA-FRA-EWR
3) Jun: LGA-YUL-MUC-KBP
I've been contemplating changing:
- 1) and 2) to EWR-FRA-LOS-JNB-CPT (stop)//JNB-HKG (dest)//HKG-???-NYC
- or 2) and 3) to GVA-FRA-EWR (dest) //JFK-FRA-KBP (stop)//KBP-IST-NRT
- or adding return leg to 3) to LGA-YUL-MUC-KBP (stop)//KBP-IST-NRT (dest)//NRT-???-NYC
Are any of these legal?
Dec 12, 2013, 12:05 pm
#2499
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.995MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,854
If all UA award space, there may be a bit more flexiablity -- but essentially none for partner space.
Dec 12, 2013, 7:09 pm
#2500
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,114
You can not combine existing bookings (award or revenue) into a common PNR. If the award space still exist, you can add to an existing award and/or change the award from OW to RT -- but it must be from new award space.
If all UA award space, there may be a bit more flexiablity -- but essentially none for partner space.
If all UA award space, there may be a bit more flexiablity -- but essentially none for partner space.
I was asking about replicating existing OWs into RTs
Dec 14, 2013, 2:38 am
#2501
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: United 1K; AA Platinum
Posts: 326
Went through two agents (HUACA) over the phone today and was NOT able to book the following in J:
SFO-ICN-REP (stopover)
BKK-SIN(22-hour layover)-MLE
MLE-SIN (10-hour overnight layover)-TPE-SFO
Agent #1 said that SQ has special rules for SIN-MLE and MLE-SIN requiring that to be a separate 80k award in addition to the 120k award from US to Asia because SQ has a monopoly on that route and requires the entire award itinerary to be on SQ from start to finish. So despite J availability for all the above, it couldn't be booked in combination with other *A carriers on the same 120k award.
He also intimated that REP doesn't allow "onward transfer" as you can't fly downstream from it deeper into S Asia on *A - but I said, "isn't that what an open jaw is for" and he concurred - but could that have been the issue? Do you think the surface segment as an open jaw on the way to the destination was throwing the system off?
HUACA
Agent #2 said the system was indicating that the two stopovers in SIN were illegal because they couldn't be >4 hours. She ran it up the flagpole to the leading shift supervisor who confirmed that it's not just for domestic. When we said the rule has always been <24 hours for int'l, they said that they've been changing a bunch of rules as of late.
SFO-ICN-REP (stopover)
BKK-SIN(22-hour layover)-MLE
MLE-SIN (10-hour overnight layover)-TPE-SFO
Agent #1 said that SQ has special rules for SIN-MLE and MLE-SIN requiring that to be a separate 80k award in addition to the 120k award from US to Asia because SQ has a monopoly on that route and requires the entire award itinerary to be on SQ from start to finish. So despite J availability for all the above, it couldn't be booked in combination with other *A carriers on the same 120k award.
He also intimated that REP doesn't allow "onward transfer" as you can't fly downstream from it deeper into S Asia on *A - but I said, "isn't that what an open jaw is for" and he concurred - but could that have been the issue? Do you think the surface segment as an open jaw on the way to the destination was throwing the system off?
HUACA
Agent #2 said the system was indicating that the two stopovers in SIN were illegal because they couldn't be >4 hours. She ran it up the flagpole to the leading shift supervisor who confirmed that it's not just for domestic. When we said the rule has always been <24 hours for int'l, they said that they've been changing a bunch of rules as of late.
Last edited by blueheronNC; Dec 14, 2013 at 8:52 am
Dec 14, 2013, 8:28 am
#2502
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: LAX
Posts: 2,851
Pay extra pts instead of free stopover, dumb move or not?
I know I can use 130k UA miles for :
LAX- KIX- biz class, OZ 777-200L
NRT-HKG -biz
HKG-ICN-JFK - LAX - lst class for one long haul segment of ICN-JFK
However, the NRT to HKG will be on Air Japan 767-300, not that great....
I am wondering about not adding the free stopover of NRT-HKG with UA and spend 20k Avios points on Cathay Pacific from HND- HGK on 747-400 as Cathay Pacific is much nicer and it would be a 5 hour flight.
Smart move or not?
LAX- KIX- biz class, OZ 777-200L
NRT-HKG -biz
HKG-ICN-JFK - LAX - lst class for one long haul segment of ICN-JFK
However, the NRT to HKG will be on Air Japan 767-300, not that great....
I am wondering about not adding the free stopover of NRT-HKG with UA and spend 20k Avios points on Cathay Pacific from HND- HGK on 747-400 as Cathay Pacific is much nicer and it would be a 5 hour flight.
Smart move or not?
Dec 14, 2013, 10:07 am
#2503
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: So Cal
Programs: UA Gold/0.744MM, WN AL, Hyatt Diamond, MR Scum, Hertz PC, National Exec, Avis PC
Posts: 5,561
Went through two agents (HUACA) over the phone today and was NOT able to book the following in J:
SFO-ICN-REP (stopover)
BKK-SIN(22-hour layover)-MLE
MLE-SIN (10-hour overnight layover)-TPE-SFO
Agent #1 said that SQ has special rules for SIN-MLE and MLE-SIN requiring that to be a separate 80k award in addition to the 120k award from US to Asia because SQ has a monopoly on that route and requires the entire award itinerary to be on SQ from start to finish. So despite J availability for all the above, it couldn't be booked in combination with other *A carriers on the same 120k award.
He also intimated that REP doesn't allow "onward transfer" as you can't fly downstream from it deeper into S Asia on *A - but I said, "isn't that what an open jaw is for" and he concurred - but could that have been the issue? Do you think the surface segment as an open jaw on the way to the destination was throwing the system off?
HUACA
Agent #2 said the system was indicating that the two stopovers in SIN were illegal because they couldn't be >4 hours. She ran it up the flagpole to the leading shift supervisor who confirmed that it's not just for domestic. When we said the rule has always been <24 hours for int'l, they said that they've been changing a bunch of rules as of late.
SFO-ICN-REP (stopover)
BKK-SIN(22-hour layover)-MLE
MLE-SIN (10-hour overnight layover)-TPE-SFO
Agent #1 said that SQ has special rules for SIN-MLE and MLE-SIN requiring that to be a separate 80k award in addition to the 120k award from US to Asia because SQ has a monopoly on that route and requires the entire award itinerary to be on SQ from start to finish. So despite J availability for all the above, it couldn't be booked in combination with other *A carriers on the same 120k award.
He also intimated that REP doesn't allow "onward transfer" as you can't fly downstream from it deeper into S Asia on *A - but I said, "isn't that what an open jaw is for" and he concurred - but could that have been the issue? Do you think the surface segment as an open jaw on the way to the destination was throwing the system off?
HUACA
Agent #2 said the system was indicating that the two stopovers in SIN were illegal because they couldn't be >4 hours. She ran it up the flagpole to the leading shift supervisor who confirmed that it's not just for domestic. When we said the rule has always been <24 hours for int'l, they said that they've been changing a bunch of rules as of late.
Dec 14, 2013, 10:36 am
#2504
Join Date: Mar 2012
Programs: Mileage Plus 1K; Marriott Platinum; Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,355
I know I can use 130k UA miles for :
LAX- KIX- biz class, OZ 777-200L
NRT-HKG -biz
HKG-ICN-JFK - LAX - lst class for one long haul segment of ICN-JFK
However, the NRT to HKG will be on Air Japan 767-300, not that great....
I am wondering about not adding the free stopover of NRT-HKG with UA and spend 20k Avios points on Cathay Pacific from HND- HGK on 747-400 as Cathay Pacific is much nicer and it would be a 5 hour flight.
Smart move or not?
LAX- KIX- biz class, OZ 777-200L
NRT-HKG -biz
HKG-ICN-JFK - LAX - lst class for one long haul segment of ICN-JFK
However, the NRT to HKG will be on Air Japan 767-300, not that great....
I am wondering about not adding the free stopover of NRT-HKG with UA and spend 20k Avios points on Cathay Pacific from HND- HGK on 747-400 as Cathay Pacific is much nicer and it would be a 5 hour flight.
Smart move or not?
I personally don't think Air Japan is that bad. It would be better than one of UA's now retired ghetto bird 767s, which I've flown to KOA, except perhaps that there's no Mai Tai served.
Dec 14, 2013, 10:44 am
#2505
Join Date: Sep 2009
Programs: UA GS>1K>Nothing; DL DM 2MM; AS 75K>Nothing>MVP
Posts: 9,341
Went through two agents (HUACA) over the phone today and was NOT able to book the following in J:
SFO-ICN-REP (stopover)
BKK-SIN(22-hour layover)-MLE
MLE-SIN (10-hour overnight layover)-TPE-SFO
Agent #1 said that SQ has special rules for SIN-MLE and MLE-SIN requiring that to be a separate 80k award in addition to the 120k award from US to Asia because SQ has a monopoly on that route and requires the entire award itinerary to be on SQ from start to finish. So despite J availability for all the above, it couldn't be booked in combination with other *A carriers on the same 120k award.
He also intimated that REP doesn't allow "onward transfer" as you can't fly downstream from it deeper into S Asia on *A - but I said, "isn't that what an open jaw is for" and he concurred - but could that have been the issue? Do you think the surface segment as an open jaw on the way to the destination was throwing the system off?
HUACA
Agent #2 said the system was indicating that the two stopovers in SIN were illegal because they couldn't be >4 hours. She ran it up the flagpole to the leading shift supervisor who confirmed that it's not just for domestic. When we said the rule has always been <24 hours for int'l, they said that they've been changing a bunch of rules as of late.
SFO-ICN-REP (stopover)
BKK-SIN(22-hour layover)-MLE
MLE-SIN (10-hour overnight layover)-TPE-SFO
Agent #1 said that SQ has special rules for SIN-MLE and MLE-SIN requiring that to be a separate 80k award in addition to the 120k award from US to Asia because SQ has a monopoly on that route and requires the entire award itinerary to be on SQ from start to finish. So despite J availability for all the above, it couldn't be booked in combination with other *A carriers on the same 120k award.
He also intimated that REP doesn't allow "onward transfer" as you can't fly downstream from it deeper into S Asia on *A - but I said, "isn't that what an open jaw is for" and he concurred - but could that have been the issue? Do you think the surface segment as an open jaw on the way to the destination was throwing the system off?
HUACA
Agent #2 said the system was indicating that the two stopovers in SIN were illegal because they couldn't be >4 hours. She ran it up the flagpole to the leading shift supervisor who confirmed that it's not just for domestic. When we said the rule has always been <24 hours for int'l, they said that they've been changing a bunch of rules as of late.