Jun 30, 2013, 2:46 pm
CO/UA Million Mile (and Beyond) Flyer Benefits, Effective Spring 2012
Nov 15, 2011, 6:01 am
#1186
Moderator, Trip Reports
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Denver, CO
Programs: UA GS-2MM, Marriott Ambassador
Posts: 3,715
This is where UA has made a critical error. By making such drastic cuts to the 1MM flyers, they've not only taken away any rational reason for pursuing 2MM status, but they've also eliminated any meaningful incentive for ex-UA 1MM flyers to continue flying UA at all.
For example, consider an ex-UA 1MM flyer who still has plenty of flying years left. Assume they're going to fly another 1,000,000 BIS miles on their choice of airline. Is it reasonable to think that a 1MM flyer is going to spend the next 10+ years pursuing 2MM status in order to restore some of the benefits lost when UA decided to cut their 1MM benefits?
Now consider an ex-UA 1MM flyer who still travels 50,000 miles a year. If this person continues to fly United, under the new MP program they will earn 25,000 fewer miles per year than they did under the old program, due to the bonus mile reduction. That's the equivalent of having one round-trip saver award ticket to anywhere in the continental U.S. taken away every year. If they fly another 1M on UA they will have lost 500,000 miles!
On the other hand, if this same ex-UA 1MM flyer decides to dump UA and fly the competition they'll get a 100% mileage bonus on either AA or DL (or a combination of AA and DL via the AS program) for 50,000 miles flown per year. Any of these airlines would likely grant a status match to a UA 1MM so they could immediately start earning the higher bonus. But even if this didn't occur the long-term payoff would be worth it.
Finally, consider an ex-UA 1MM flyer who flies 25,000 a year. While AA and DL only a offer a 25% bonus at this tier, Alaska offers a 50% bonus after just 25,000 miles flown on AS, AA, DL, etc. Under the old UA MP program, a 1MM would get a 100% mileage bonus, which provided a key incentive to choose United over Alaska. With United and Alaska both at 50%, there's no reason to choose United over the competition. There are far more flight options with AS/AA/DL, and the flyer would always have the UA status to fall back on.
Bottom line: there's lots of options for ex-UA 1MM flyers. While driving away its most loyal customers may not have been the goal, the new MP program sadly gives 1MM flyers little reason to stay.
For example, consider an ex-UA 1MM flyer who still has plenty of flying years left. Assume they're going to fly another 1,000,000 BIS miles on their choice of airline. Is it reasonable to think that a 1MM flyer is going to spend the next 10+ years pursuing 2MM status in order to restore some of the benefits lost when UA decided to cut their 1MM benefits?
Now consider an ex-UA 1MM flyer who still travels 50,000 miles a year. If this person continues to fly United, under the new MP program they will earn 25,000 fewer miles per year than they did under the old program, due to the bonus mile reduction. That's the equivalent of having one round-trip saver award ticket to anywhere in the continental U.S. taken away every year. If they fly another 1M on UA they will have lost 500,000 miles!
On the other hand, if this same ex-UA 1MM flyer decides to dump UA and fly the competition they'll get a 100% mileage bonus on either AA or DL (or a combination of AA and DL via the AS program) for 50,000 miles flown per year. Any of these airlines would likely grant a status match to a UA 1MM so they could immediately start earning the higher bonus. But even if this didn't occur the long-term payoff would be worth it.
Finally, consider an ex-UA 1MM flyer who flies 25,000 a year. While AA and DL only a offer a 25% bonus at this tier, Alaska offers a 50% bonus after just 25,000 miles flown on AS, AA, DL, etc. Under the old UA MP program, a 1MM would get a 100% mileage bonus, which provided a key incentive to choose United over Alaska. With United and Alaska both at 50%, there's no reason to choose United over the competition. There are far more flight options with AS/AA/DL, and the flyer would always have the UA status to fall back on.
Bottom line: there's lots of options for ex-UA 1MM flyers. While driving away its most loyal customers may not have been the goal, the new MP program sadly gives 1MM flyers little reason to stay.
For one, I'm an international 1K. Dont live in the US and all my UA travel is long-haul. I choose to make 1K each and every year. I have no need for CR1's (give them away each year). but I do value SWU's and use them all (typically).
My pragmatic view is that if you want to sit in J, then the only way to guarantee it is to pay for it. I'll look at flight options ex SIN to the US, and if my client isn't picking up the J fare, then I will buy Y/B/M fares and take the gamble. While I hate playing the upgrade lottery like most people, I do feel that UA have improved the hard J product to an extent where it is now at least competitive (and all I care about on the TPAC's is the ability to sleep).
I also look at just how many SWU's have cleared in my 10+ years as a 1K. I've redeemed each and every one which has been deposited into my account.
Ok, so I lose CR-1's. No big deal to me. And if I maintain 1K status, aren't I about the same benefits wise. I also get to give my spouse the same benefits (although not sure how much use this will be as she rarely travels) but I like the idea.
There's no way I'm going to DL. And AA - well I already have Lifetime Gold on QF so I am sort of covered there.
Nov 15, 2011, 10:49 am
#1187
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,909
One other side effect of all the downgrading of MM'ers is sure, UA wants them to push for the next MM but I am thinking, OK, I got screwed at the MM mark. If I push for another MM what are they going to do when I reach it? Downgrade it so I keep exactly what I had 1MM ago or less? So I flew another MM to just keep what I had and not get anymore or lose even more? That is in the back of my mind.
Nov 15, 2011, 6:05 pm
#1188
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,617
One other side effect of all the downgrading of MM'ers is sure, UA wants them to push for the next MM but I am thinking, OK, I got screwed at the MM mark. If I push for another MM what are they going to do when I reach it? Downgrade it so I keep exactly what I had 1MM ago or less? So I flew another MM to just keep what I had and not get anymore or lose even more? That is in the back of my mind.
If I had any confidence that UA was not going to dilute the value of reaching this level, I'd still be striving for it - but I don't, so I'll likely never reach 1MM now.
Nov 15, 2011, 7:37 pm
#1189
Join Date: May 2004
Programs: UA lifetime 1K
Posts: 2,033
I'm sitting just below 700000 miles. I fully expected to reach 1MM sometime within the next four years. Since I plan on retiring in five years, it was going to work out perfectly. Was, that is.
If I had any confidence that UA was not going to dilute the value of reaching this level, I'd still be striving for it - but I don't, so I'll likely never reach 1MM now.
If I had any confidence that UA was not going to dilute the value of reaching this level, I'd still be striving for it - but I don't, so I'll likely never reach 1MM now.
After retirement, status is all that much harder to come by, unless you spend your time globe-hopping. And that, too, would last only until other diversions closer to home came calling.
Projecting from personal experience, assuming you have a spouse or equivalent as I do, grandchildren, hobby related travel "requirements," or "events" in the adult kid's lives will conspire to put the other on a plane without you quite frequently. Your earning the MM designation would make that travel all the more pleasant, binding you closer to the heart each time the elite security line is used or an upgrade comes through.
So, all I'm saying is that *G status and the SO benefit is nothing to sneer at. It seems to me that even if the MM program now proposed is that which is ultimately implemented, (of which I continue to be less than certain), its lifetime benefits in retirement are far better than the "no benefits" that will attain if you finish your business-career flying 700K here, and maybe 300K elsewhere.
Last edited by xFF; Nov 15, 2011 at 7:39 pm Reason: typo
Nov 15, 2011, 8:55 pm
#1190
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,617
So, all I'm saying is that *G status and the SO benefit is nothing to sneer at. It seems to me that even if the MM program now proposed is that which is ultimately implemented, (of which I continue to be less than certain), its lifetime benefits in retirement are far better than the "no benefits" that will attain if you finish your business-career flying 700K here, and maybe 300K elsewhere.
Nov 15, 2011, 9:28 pm
#1191
Join Date: May 2004
Programs: UA lifetime 1K
Posts: 2,033
It's important to keep in mind the essential difference between this, to-be formal, proposal going forward, and the source of the downgrades described in this thread. This is, the changes, for better and (for many) for worse, can be reckoned from the standpoints of two distinct merged programs. On the other hand, what is on the table is a new program from a new company. This fact produces both equitable and legal distinctions between the two issues.
Nov 16, 2011, 6:39 am
#1192
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
I'm sitting just below 700000 miles. I fully expected to reach 1MM sometime within the next four years. Since I plan on retiring in five years, it was going to work out perfectly. Was, that is.
If I had any confidence that UA was not going to dilute the value of reaching this level, I'd still be striving for it - but I don't, so I'll likely never reach 1MM now.
You should send an e-mail to the head of MP and state exactly what you posted here.
The e-mail should NOT go to customer relations. That department simply answers e-mails from customers and gives a "canned" response. The people in customer relations have no authority to change anything.
You should write to the top man at the new Mileage Plus. His name is Jeffrey Foland and his e-mail address is:
[email protected]
If Mr. Foland receives a lot of e-mails that indicate his decision to demote the million-mile program will result in a significant reduction in future revenue, he just might rescind the unfair and discriminatory demotions that have been announced.
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Nov 16, 2011, 4:47 pm
#1193
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,617
You should write to the top man at the new Mileage Plus. His name is Jeffrey Foland and his e-mail address is:
[email protected]
If Mr. Foland receives a lot of e-mails that indicate his decision to demote the million-mile program will result in a significant reduction in future revenue, he just might rescind the unfair and discriminatory demotions that have been announced.
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Nov 17, 2011, 3:22 pm
#1194
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: SJC, SFO, YYC
Programs: AA-EXP, AA-0.41MM, UA-Gold, Ex UA-1K (2006 thru 2015), PMUA-0.95MM, COUA-1.5MM-lite, AF-Silver
Posts: 13,437
I disagree with outstanding. I agree that the analysis of Infinite Plats and PMCO elites in general is correct.
SADDE6 doesn't seem to be accounting for the extra BIS that PMUA elites will get due to EQMs in the one time adjustment. While PMCO elites make out like bandits for sure, PMUA elites are going to get a bump. There's no question that I am a MMer now despite having flown just 0.94MM BIS. The issue for me is how close to 2MMer I will be. Existing PMUA 1MMers who are upset about the loss of CR-1s will be closer to 2MM when the dust settles, and with it, free RPUs as before and a much higher probability of CPUs clearing due to the 0P status.
SADDE6 doesn't seem to be accounting for the extra BIS that PMUA elites will get due to EQMs in the one time adjustment. While PMCO elites make out like bandits for sure, PMUA elites are going to get a bump. There's no question that I am a MMer now despite having flown just 0.94MM BIS. The issue for me is how close to 2MMer I will be. Existing PMUA 1MMers who are upset about the loss of CR-1s will be closer to 2MM when the dust settles, and with it, free RPUs as before and a much higher probability of CPUs clearing due to the 0P status.
Nov 17, 2011, 4:09 pm
#1195
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,358
I disagree with outstanding. I agree that the analysis of Infinite Plats and PMCO elites in general is correct. SADDE6 doesn't seem to be accounting for the extra BIS that PMUA elites will get due to EQMs in the one time adjustment. While PMCO elites make out like bandits for sure, PMUA elites are going to get a bump.
Most million milers who keep track of their benefits are so disgusted with the discriminatory demotion that there is no way they would remain loyal to United to make two million or any other status. The idiom, "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." can best describle the feelings of many million milers toward the new UA management
I think you might want to reread the demotions that have been announced for the UA million milers.
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Last edited by dgcpaphd; Nov 17, 2011 at 5:52 pm Reason: left out phrase
Nov 17, 2011, 4:17 pm
#1196
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,617
I disagree with outstanding. I agree that the analysis of Infinite Plats and PMCO elites in general is correct.
SADDE6 doesn't seem to be accounting for the extra BIS that PMUA elites will get due to EQMs in the one time adjustment. While PMCO elites make out like bandits for sure, PMUA elites are going to get a bump.
SADDE6 doesn't seem to be accounting for the extra BIS that PMUA elites will get due to EQMs in the one time adjustment. While PMCO elites make out like bandits for sure, PMUA elites are going to get a bump.
Nov 17, 2011, 4:26 pm
#1197
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,909
Most million milers are so disgusted with the discriminatory demotion that there is no way they would remain loyal to United to make two million or any other status. The idiom, "fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." can best describle the feelings of many million milers toward the new UA management
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Nov 17, 2011, 4:30 pm
#1198
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: TX
Programs: UA mm, Marriott PLT, Hilton Dia
Posts: 580
I, however, do like the boost to *G in the new program. I have a spouse. And, I will probably not make 2MM. Therefore, I do like the changes and I am not jealous that the UA flyers get treated better on the EQM front than the CO flyers.
Nov 17, 2011, 5:01 pm
#1199
Join Date: Jun 2006
Programs: UA1P MM, Delta, AA, IC Royal Ambassador, Starwood Gold
Posts: 333
CNN reports today a disgruntled Southwest flyer has filed a class action suit against that airline for refusing to continue to honor its complementary drink chits (without expiration dates); the claim is for breach of contract.
This is an interesting parallel to UACO's reneging on its promissory obligations to its 1 MM MP members. While the Southwest story has more news appeal, it is a much less compelling legal argument, given that members didn't have to spend megabucks and fly hundreds of thousands of revenue miles to earn drink chits.
Let's watch and see what happens.
Dave
This is an interesting parallel to UACO's reneging on its promissory obligations to its 1 MM MP members. While the Southwest story has more news appeal, it is a much less compelling legal argument, given that members didn't have to spend megabucks and fly hundreds of thousands of revenue miles to earn drink chits.
Let's watch and see what happens.
Dave
Nov 17, 2011, 5:33 pm
#1200
Used to be MJ-bos
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: San Diego, California USA
Programs: AA ExecPlat, COdbaUA 1P & 2MM, HH Diamond, Marriott Gold, SPG Gold, IHG Gold, Avis 1st
Posts: 228
oooh, that reminds me I have a wallet full of old CO and UA no-expiration-date drink chits. Wonder how long these are going to be good for !!