mike_plat

I do agree with you. At the time of the DL/NW integration, the standard for awful mergers was America West/US Air. Now, 6 years on, US Air is still 2 separate airlines owned by the same company. DL definitely didn't want this to happen, so it became their priority not to allow it to. And it didn't. But in the process, DL threw all kinds of other things very important to the customer under the bus, and they still suffer from these decisions.

ClipperDelta

They are far from being at the bottom these days. From the latest DOT report issued July 2011 for May 2011 performance: http://airconsumer.dot.gov/reports/atcr11.htm

Here are some examples from the report:

Consumer Complaints:

1. Mesa 0.13 complaints per 100,000 enplanements
2. Hawaiian 0.41
3. Southwest 0.49
4. Skywest 0.57
5. AirTran 0.62
6. Alaska 0.67
7. Frontier 0.75
8. ASA 0.94
9. Delta 1.07
10. JetBlue 1.18
11. ExpressJet 1.24
12. Continental 1.85
13. US Airways 2.00
14. American 2.00
15. American Eagle 2.20
16. United 2.32

On-Time Performance:

1. Hawaiian 91.4%
2. Alaska 90.7%
3. AirTran 85.9%
4. Mesa 84.8%
5. Delta 82.7%
6. Skywest 81.5%
7. United 78.4%
8. Southwest 76.7%
9. JetBlue 76.2%
10. Continental 76.0%
11. US Airways 74.8%
12. Frontier 73.8%
13. ASA 73.7%
14. ExpressJet 71.6%
15. American 70.3%
16. American Eagle 67.6%

Denied Boardings:

1. JetBlue 0.02 IDBs per 10,000 pax
2. Hawaiian 0.12
3. Delta 0.29
4. AirTran 0.44
5. ASA 0.56
6. Skywest 0.79
7. Southwest 0.85
8. US Airways 0.93
9. Frontier 1.11
10. United 1.14
11. Alaska 1.17
12. American 1.23
13. Continental 1.49
14. ExpressJet 1.58
15. Mesa 1.69
16. American Eagle 2.74

redtailshark

The indicators vary, some months DL isn't at bottom, others it is.

But what doesn't change, and what is an indicator of key airline performance to me and clearly many others, is this:

http://blog.delta.com/2011/02/03/imp...-on-delta-com/

I forgot about that, Cheryl must have overlooked my contribution to DL social media and failed to censor it...she did all the others

And this..

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta...s-alright.html

CPMaverick

I was a NW Plat when DL took over. I was not as upset as others with the DL/NW operation but it had many poor decisions along the way.

Being in DTW I still fly DL quite a bit (more than UA this year so far). But it's not as good as NW was.

The UA/CO merger isn't the greatest, but it is much smoother and definitely has a lower impact than what I saw with DL/NW. So far.

Agreed. Not sure why the other poster could say otherwise so confidently. There is little of (the good parts of) NW left here at their old hub.

steve64

I'm a refugee of both the HP/US and DL/NW mergers.
I roll my eyes at some of the posts here. Yea, there have been cutbacks, but in today's economy I wonder how many of them would've happened anyhow.

HP/US the physical integration was a disaster. Internally, they still are not operated as a single carrier. Doogie was so convinced that he had created an airline so great and wonderful that they didn't need to earn the customer's business. We were bombarded with the "take the best from both airlines". Well the definition of "best" was always per the Accountant's viewpoint.

DL/NW I think the physical integration went pretty danged well. I don't remember big Reservation Sys conversion snafus and such. On-board, I found DL service a little friendlier than what I was used to at NW. But everything else was a serious downgrade. I could go on and on repeating what others have said but instead I'll sum it up as the main thing being attitude. As NW Plt I always had the feeling they appreciated my business. Six months of sticking around w/DL left me the feeling that all they wanted was my wallet right now and they don't give a flying flip if I ever come back.
That DL website. It sucks. The worse part is the award search engine. It downright lies to you. And it's not an integration issue. It didn't work before. It was a shock to ex-NW'ers to use it. Today, years later, it's the same. They just don't care. Period. All the time while pushing the "best in class" mantra down my throat. I do have to be honest ... when I place DL in the class with Ryanair, Spirit, Allegiant etc, I do from the bottom of my heart feel they are indeed the best in class.

UA/CO. They've only just begun. There are many changes I don't like, but they are all just irritations. So far I'm not seeing anything big. But it's been more re-branding and aligning some policies. They have yet to start the fun part and physically melding the operations. It's too early to make a verdict.

Carolinian

As a NW refugee, IMHO the DL takeover of NW was a disaster for customers, particularly the severe downgrading of the ff program. UA and CO are definitely doing a better job, but with some significant downgrades such as raising TATL Y redemptions to 60K (making the seasonal 40K / 60K at AA now a MUCH better deal). CO/UA seems to be much more aware overall of passenger opinion than DL was. That said we are not fully there yet, so the jury is still out, and there are some serious questions remaining like whether *Net blocking, a massive negative for me, will be part of the new ff program or not.

5khours

I was a 20 year PE, 2MM on NWA and incredibly loyal to the airline.

After the merger they took away all the benefits....international upgrades, good award availability, etc. On top of that they were consistently dishonest in the way the communicated changes and information.

I switched to UA after the merger and never looked back. The only international FFs left at DL after the merger are hub captives and ignoramuses.

In my mind, UA/CO are doing a great job on the merger. Can't speak for the general flying public but I'm very happy with the service the top tier elites are getting. The MM program is a good example, the benefits at DL are total crap, but at UA you get the feeling that the MM program is not something designed by the short term bean counters, but rather the airline is saying "Thanks we really do appreciate your business."

I think the problem is that DL is always trying to maximize revenue per flight whereas UA has partially figured out that they are better off trying to maximize revenue per customer by offering a service and program that makes people want to travel more.

as219

Very interesting thread. Definitely helps me put some things in perspective.

On the other hand I'm not sure the benchmark should be set by a near worst-case scenario. Does the fact that UACO isn't messing things up on the order of magnitude that DLNW did make the grab-backs from 1K benefits all right? Sure, some changes are dictated by economics, but that doesn't mean when UA acts in a penny-wise-pound-foolish way we should just say, well at least it's not as bad as what DLNW did.

guest909

I was an elite Delta flyer for 15 years when I switched to CO for the following reasons:

1. Too many Skymiles for too few rewards
2. Skyteam is far too limited as an alliance
3. Too many restrictions on earning miles on Skyteam partners

I thought CO was a wash. While it was better on the above issues, I found upgrades pretty hard to come by as a Onepass Platinum on major routes.

UA has been great, so far. I've been upgraded on 75% of flights, including major routes (LAX-ORD). I also find the customer service to be helpful (although their overseas call center is patchy). This year, I've earned elite miles on UA,CO,SAS,BMI,US,AC...a great change from Delta or AirFrance-KLM).

youngdlplat

I was directed over to this thread through a current cross-link in the DL forum. As a former NW elite flyer who often flew CO and has stayed with DL, I think the comments about the DL/NW merger are skewed and way off base, likely the result of disgruntled former NW elites.

I agree that DL seriously reduced the value of the NW Worldperks program. I also agree that ST is not the best alliance right now and that integration with KL/AF and AS is not as good as it was during the NW days, which just seems ridiculous to me. DL has taken a real step backward in that regard, for no good reason that I can see.

That said---and again, this comes from a former NW elite flyer for four plus years---NW was a dump of an airline compared to DL. The hard product has improved so much it is difficult to state. Since the merger, DL has introduced F in almost all RJs, installed wifi fleetwide on mainline aircraft and now expanding to RJs, reintroduced snacks (it's a small thing, but peanuts, pretzels, etc. are nice to have, and NW had cut that). Many DL planes have PTVs, while NW only had that on select international craft. DLs beverage options are better.

Simply put, no one seems to be discussing the fact that NW was a cheap, dump of an airline. Yes, they treated elite passengers well, but their product was not nearly as good as what DL has become.

It seems UA/CO is avoiding some of the FF program problems DL had, so in that sense the merger may be "better" but I would look hard at what sort of hard product UA/CO rolls out. DL merged with NW and created a worse FF program but a much better airline. The question is whether UA/CO will do the same.

Medeski

I had just logged in to post something very similar to what you just posted.

I find most of the people I know who dont like the merger of DL/NW were former NW fliers who were upset that NW was disappearing as an airline.

There were good and bad parts about the merger for both sides but overall I think the product is in a much better position for long term success than it was pre-merger.

steve64

To a degree, you have a point. But each person's situation is unique. As you agreed later on in your post, NW WorldPerks was seriously downgraded. NW Elites had a reason to be disgruntled. But I hung around for a short while, convincing myself that after getting over the hurdles, the merger would create a strong airline that would fit into my travel patterns. It took about 6 months to change my mind.

And this thread is supposed to be about the integration, not the airline.

With all due respect, wasn't it NW that brought the concept of First in 'almost all' RJs to the merger. I know they were out there (the CRJ-200s), but I never flew an NW RJ that didn't have First. Does DL have First in their CRJ-200 sized (50'ish seater) RJs ?
Heck, NW had RJ's with First well before the new generation of EMB170/190 and CRJ-700/900

Actually, several of us have stated that some aspects of the DL hard product was better than NW. Yet, all things considered, they still chose to defect. That's the group I'm in.
I can not comment on "what DL has become" as I defected long ago. But again, this thread is about the integration.
As for NW being a "dump of an airline" ... well ... you are certainly entitled to your opinion.
My opinions from the integration time frame:

Food
I saw a decline in F meal service from a choice of entrees to one, take it or leave it. And on the 3.5 hour morning flights that single option was Cheerios. Shorter flights had the meal service taken away altogether.
The reduction in food offerings was also extended to WorldClubs.

Operation
7 years as NW Plat, almost always on a connecting flights, I only "mis-connected" twice. 2 times in 7 years.
Of my 1st 5 roundtrips on DL metal, I mis-connected either going or coming 4 times. That's 4 times in 6 months. On the "good" trip, my flight home was 3 hours late. "It" happens on all airlines, but the 0% batting average wasn't setting too good with me.

IRROPS handling - this was the deal breaker
NW mis-connect #1 - arrival announcement on the plane said all passengers connecting to AAA or BBB please check at the gate counter. The Agent already had a hotel voucher and boarding passes for the next day printed out. I was on my way within 2 minutes.
NW mis-connect #2 - no page to go to the desk so I went straight to the WorldClub. After check-in, I was #2 in line at the service desk. Seems I had already been re-routed because after about a 5 minute wait for my turn, I had new boarding passes within a minute or 2.

DL mis-connect #1. I knew before departing I would mis-connect. Wonderful Ticket Agent at departure city tried every possible routing before deciding I had to stick with ATL on a much later flight.
The other 3 mis-connects. All ATL. All disasters. Instructions were to go to the Service Desk. Long lines so off to Crown Room/SkyClub. Long lines there also. I think each time it took at least an hour before I was "processed". Never any signs of being proactive as each time the Agents seemed to be starting from scratch.

I agree that DL's product seemed nicer/slicker. But the bottom line is NW got the job done better.

bbelovic

I left DL just as merger was in the works (early 2008), so it didn't really affect me one way or another, but I think one of the things everyone brings up - massive devaluation of FF program - actually started (well) before the merger.
I can't remember the exact timeline, but I think that 3 tiers were in place before the merger (or just around the same time). And it was sometime in 2007 that DL started blocking seats even at "standard" redemption rates.

redtailshark

Ignoring the mendacity of the SM program - for a moment at least, you know "This Jeff! Tell pointsss plisss" and the utter lack of value of being a Delta Medallion customer - I agree with Steve64 above.

Irops handling is a deal breaker for very frequent flyers.

Even CO irops handling is better than DL at the same elite level. And many of us, me included, have been critical of CO on this front.

NW was superlative. I never experienced a forced overnight anywhere in the world after becoming NW Silver Elite. This including eight years as Plat. In the years when I flew 150k EQM or more, of course I encountered numerous schedule changes, cancellations and service disruptions. All over the world. Yet, NW PE line always came through...even rebooking on AA, if necessAAry. Most of the time, I saw proactive rebookings on NWA.COM, or the WC agents had new BPs for me as I walked up to the desk and identified myself. On the very rare occasions the NW system plan was not acceptable, I called it out to the agent, and another option was offered without the frustrating and time-wasting resistance that characterizes DL in those situations.

It's clear from these discussions, as always, that those who were never PE with NW really had no idea how great the service was. It was so great, we didn't care about IFE, or froufrou cocktails, or the scungy interiors of the most ancient 752s.

Not one forced overnight, anywhere in the world, for an entire decade-plus Elite flying career thanks only to actual best in class service.

This is one reason why we developed fanatical loyalty in the face of other airlines offering superior hard product, at least prior to the arrival of the A330s. Other airline elites really didn't get it. For years, we rode on CO machines effectively as CO elites...and most of us didn't switch programs despite the CO shiny face. This was a constant topic of discussion over on the NW board.

We couldn't wait to book on the scungy 752s. Yes, it would have been better if they'd all been steam-cleaned from prow to keel, and yes, DL's machines were in better condition inside, with more amenities, but that meant very little in the face of the redtail service quality. Even the horrendous 753 to HNL from all West Coast cities...the most uncomfortable of all mainline jets...we sucked it up. Avidly.

I can't get over the fact that NW PE line is the only Elite customer service department, for any airline, anywhere, for which the customers spontaneously contributed to a celebration/recognition party for the superlative service. That says it all.

NW was the greatest ever in those respects. DL absolutely sux rox and the contrast was cataclysmic for us - from the best irop handling and customer service to almost the worst, overnight. FR might be worse, but I have received better irop handling on US as a general member than on DL as Plat Medallion.

As for now, UA totally blows DL away. No arguing with DL agents about whether other options exist, or whether the fare class is A or real F, or any of that bs, just effective service recovery. I can't speak for being nonelite at UA, or DL, but at PE/PM/1K level, UA wins by a landslide.

And never having to deal with the nightmare DL SM redemption scenario seals the deal for all time. Compare CO.COM, which is now the best platform for online award redemption, vs DL.COM which is tied for worst with KL.COM... "This Jeff, Delll-lllta SssskyMilesss...tell points plissss!"

I had to fly DL yesterday - positioning flight for my BOG run on CO - and the CR7/9 was fine. But all I can think about is..what will I do if the flight is disrupted, and how can I redeem the SM to get any value from them? DL is :-: best in class :-:

flyingrox

It seems to me that all these complaints revolve around Skymiles. And yes, Skymiles truly sucks. Even as a non-elite, I know booking award travel is nearly impossible on their crappy website and more difficult to succeed compared to other airlines on getting the seat you want. And i'm sure many of you saw the new Skymiles as being devalued for an elite which I would agree with.

However, this merger did a lot of things which make me think it went smooth
* A merger of equals. NW management is still strong in the Delta company. Pilots were truly integrated and NW pilots were not shafted. Clearly, this wasn't a US Airways/America West merger.
* Delta didn't can all the NW hubs like AA essentially did to TWA. It truly took the best of both airlines networks.
* Routes integrated well. Now, NW residents in Minnesota can get great service in the South and East Coast residents can get great service to the midwest. In my opinion, it was the first true global airline; a strong presence to both Europe and Asia.
* No reservation disaster like other mergers
* Quick rebranding (logo at NW hub airports, planes)
* Significant hard product improvements. As a non-frequent flyer (a few times a year), I consider Delta to be the best legacy carrier. Leather seats, good IFE (more PTV than United, American, or US Airways), snacks in coach. I truly believe they are the best legacy for coach service. I also believe that the Business Elite lie flat seats are very nice also.
* I have always found the planes to be on-time, clean, and have had good experiences with customer service.

I would argue that going forward, Delta is the strongest legacy airline with a strong Balance Sheet and positive cash flow.

I agree that Skymiles sucks but if all of you are defining this merger on that alone, I think you are misguided. A merger includes many components and I would say Delta/Northwest has done a good job with most of them. And most articles have declared the merger a success too.

And I might add that United/Continental have been consulted by the same firm that helped with the Delta/NWA merger, Bain & Co. So clearly United didn’t think that the Delta/NWA merger was a failure.