expatsandbegats

Looking to book some flights but need to see if it would even be humanly possible. Would fly VA JFK-LHR and arrive at 6:20a Terminal 3 and want to then get on a LH flight LHR-FRA out of Terminal 2 at 7:30a.

I know this is super tight and not advised, but if we are carry on only, is it even humanly possible to make that connection?

tom tulpe

If on one ticket: go on (not sure whether it meets MCT, but you'll get rebooked if things go wrong).

On separate tickets: No way. You'd have to clear transfer security, and the gate closes some time before scheduled departure.

expatsandbegats

Is the connection tunnel landside then? Or some other reason why I'd need to re-clear security? I know Heathrow is weird, but been a minute since I've transferred through there.

NWIFlyer

The UK, like the US, requires all passengers to clear security to ensure its own standards are met. Consequently, whether you take an airside or landside route you will near to go through that process.

There's nothing particularly weird about Heathrow in that respect, and in fact it's potentially easier to transfer there than in a US airport given that at the latter you also have no option but to clear immigration.

In terms of your question: 70 minutes is possible with a lot of luck on your side and knowing exactly what you're doing and where you're going, but really not advisable given even on a single ticket a cross-terminal MCT would be 90 minutes.

Ldnn1

The connection tunnel you are perhaps thinking of is a walkway that is indeed landside and connects T3 to T2 going past the Heathrow Express and Underground stations en route. It’s a long walk, but perfectly walkable. However because it’s landside it does entail clearing immigration.

There is no walkable route airside. The airside connection is via bus, which isn’t long but that of course adds uncertainty and means (like clearing immigration) that the timing isn’t quite in your control.

In either case, you would need to clear security at T2, again meaning you could be delayed if queues are long.

UKtravelbear

Separate tickets? It would haveto be as no reputable airline / travel agent would sell you that as the MCT for T3-T2 is 75 minutes

If you think 70 mins is tight then think that allowing for the LH doors close deadline you'll have even less than that.

You have no allowance for the VS flight being late or if the T3-T2 transfer isn't running to time or if there are queues at T2 transfer security.

And when you turn up late at the LH gate they have no obligation to just rebook you for free on the next flight.

Rethink your plans

Ldnn1

I think this is too strong a view. The OP's question is whether it's humanly possible, to which the answer is: yes, if the VS flight arrives on time or early.

If it's delayed even a bit, or if there is bad luck with queues at one of the crunch points, then it's very easily missable. But it is possible.

What the OP presumably knows is that he's up a creek if it goes wrong. But it may be that he has an easy way of getting a cheap replacement flight to FRA if needed, whether that's miles, staff travel or whatever. If that's the case, I would go for it.

NWIFlyer

Much depends on where the OP is sitting on the plane, whether they have status, whether their passport allows them to use the e-gates for a landside transfer. Ordinarily these things don't matter to most passengers, but here they potentially become crucial.

Best case scenario assuming exactly on-time at the gate, airside transfer: 6.22 off the plane, arrival gate close to the transfer buses (I think the best option here - immigration is less predictable and the walk is fairly long in the landside tunnel), arrive transfer bus at 6.27. Bus arrives at 6.30. Arrive T2 at 6.35. Transit security by 6.40. Clear security at 6.45. Gate by 6.55, so 15 minutes to spare before gate close.

Landside transfer: 6.22 off the plane, arrival gate close to immigration. 6.25 at immigration. 6.30 exit immigration. 6.35 exit T3. Walk landside to T2, using lifts at T2 to departures. Arrive T2 departures 6.45. At security 6.47. Clear security 6.50 (highly optimistically, even the priority lane isn't quick these days). Gate 6.55.

In reality, this ideal will not happen and there'll be another 10 minutes lost somewhere. It really, really wouldn't take much for this to go wrong.

Stewie Mac

But actually on those early morning TATLs, the best case scenario is a healthy tailwind and an arrival well before 6am, which makes the whole thing a lot more comfortable. Yes it's tight, but it's certainly possible, and if the OP checks latest weather he should get some idea of likely ETA and chances before he leaves JFK.

EDIT: I clearly don't know what I'm talking about, and bow to the greater recent experience of scottishpoet and NWIFlyer below. And for the avoidance of doubt, I think that while it's *possible*, the OP would be foolhardy to attempt this with any expectation of success....

scottishpoet

In my view it is not a theoretical "is it physical possible" question, despite the way its worded. It as looking for advice before(hopefully before) purchasing a ticket.

OP, in my view this is a huge risk. If all goes well there is every chance you make your flight in T2, but it would not take a lot to go wrong and you are hosed. I would recommend you look at what the cost of a back up plan would be should you need to purchase new tickets on the day and see if you are prepared to take that risk.

Does lufthansa offer a same day change option like BA does? if so, it may be worth booking a later flight to FRA and then if you do get to LHr on time try to change it to the earlier flight

scottishpoet

even with a strong tail wind, its unlikely they will be allowed to land much before 6am and they will join the q to get in as the restrictions open up at 6am

in the past, when i flew DXB to LHR a lot. many times my 6:15 arrival from DXB was well ahead of schedule. but as we approach heathrow we get held and end up touching down about 6:10

Some of the restrictions may have eased since I had so many early morning arrivals, but with the number of flights coming it at that time I do not think they will get much improvement on a 6;20 arrival

NWIFlyer

Based on my recent experience with early arrivals, I would tend to agree with scottishpoet's analysis. My last JFK-LHR, in late October, was projected to be 30 minutes early when we left New York thanks to extremely strong tailwinds - and it wasn't even one of the really early arrivals.

Door opening, thanks to an extended hold and taxi, ended up about two minutes early. I don't think this is particularly unusual for the early evening departures from the Eastern Seaboard, and I don't think it's something the OP has factored into their risk calculation either.

:D!

LH flies to FRA hourly, is there a reason the 0730 has to be chosen when on most days there is an 0830, 0930, 1030 and 1130 option?

If a single ticket by all means book the 0730 since you'll just have a 50/50 (or probably better) chance of ending up on the 0830

HogwartsExpress

The flight (VS4) is currently scheduled for 6:40 and is seldom on-time or late recently,, often 20-30 early - although that’s FR24 landing time rather than reaching the gate. But it may well be the case that it doesn’t perform so well when scheduled for 6:20.

scottishpoet

I have every confidence that on most days it is likely to arrive more or less on time.

The post I responded to suggested "best case" would be 30 minutes early. I was trying to show that, for various operational reasons, is unlikely and not a case i would consider if looking at this "connection"