KARFA

I am not sure what information you are providing to the restaurant? Usually you just scan the QR code.

KSVVZ2015

when I go to the local pub they ask if I have the app. I say no so they send you to another website to fill in some basic information - name, phone, DOB etc. Went to a cafe today that didn’t use the app but had their own track and trace data collection form to fill in after scanning a QR code.

KARFA

well if you don't have the app and don't want to scan they are obliged to ask you for those details. you are not obliged to provide them, but if you don't the venue is supposed to deny you entry. the easiest course of action therefore seems to get the app since your visit is recorded but the venue does not hold any of your personal details.

KSVVZ2015

Thanks. I think that answers my question that essentially their is an (indirect) obligation to either use the app or provide data.

I have no issue giving my details to the restaurant. It’s the giving of them to the government that concerns me. While I support the mission in principle, it is dubious in practice given people don’t get information regarding the actual exposure to allow them to evaluate the specific circumstances. Now that I will soon be fully vaccinated, the stories of fully vaccinated people getting called and told they are legally obligated to self isolate for 10 days is beyond absurd and I want no part in it.

Seems the better solution is to fake it (pretend to scan the app - no one really ever looks at your phone) or just fill out forms as Mickey Mouse (again no one seems to check).

And yes, I’m well aware that many on this forum will disagree with my views on the subject.

KARFA

Or just not visit the place to start with?

KSVVZ2015

I certainly want to do my part to support the hospitality industry!

KARFA

Using track and trace falls squarely within that. It is one of the factors which is helping them open up.

DaveS

In Weatherspoons a few days ago, they made a point of telling everyone that they would not be served without the contact information. They handed out forms for you to enter your name, phone number and time of visit (if you did not have the app). Then they did not bother collecting the forms...

KSVVZ2015

And I agree with you in principle. The execution however is unreasonable in practice.

KARFA

So what in your mind would you change to make it reasonable?

KSVVZ2015

no legal isolation requirement for vaccinated folks and a meaningful exposure assessment for anyone else. self isolation should only be legally required when the risk is clearly high. A secondary course could be daily testing and symptom reporting for moderate risk situations.


Somewhat analogous example, I was contacted by the Italian ministry of health last year to isolate after exposure on a flight. Ignoring the fact that I had no idea where the person was sitting in relation to me, the flight in question was 40 minutes long, turbulent, with no service and therefore my surgical mask remained on the entire time (along with just about everyone else given it’s Italy and they are strong on mask compliance). The chance of exposure was thus extremely small. The idea of telling someone to isolate for 14 days is absurd in such a situation.

Had it been on a flight with a meal where the infected passenger sat next to me, then self isolation would have been Reasonable.

PS The Italian situation was actually kind of laughable as it was 11 days after the flight. I had exited, re-entered, and exited Italy in the time since.

KARFA

thanks for the reply.

so if they removed the legal obligation to self isolate would there be any circumstances you would still do and stay at home for 10 days it if told that you were in proximity to someone who has subsequently tested positive?

KSVVZ2015

yes - if I was in maskless close proximity to an infected person for more than a trivial amount of time

KSVVZ2015

yes - if I was in maskless close proximity to an infected person for more than a trivial amount of time

KARFA

yes, we do seem to do things half-arsed sometimes!

it is uncomfortable to say this, but generally countries which have done well at keeping infections and deaths very low have been those who have rigorously implemented a track & trace program which everyone has followed. I don’t like that conclusion because I don’t like the obvious privacy and freedom implications - but unfortunately the virus doesn’t care about that. Perhaps therefore the UK approach is as good as we will accept whilst still having some degree of risk reduction.