1010101

I just use it as a free visit to another city in Europe. The cost of APD usually pays for the extra flight to/from LHR.

BA6501

I start my longhaul redemptions in JER.

seattle29

I always try and start my long-haul flights outside the UK now. Two recent examples with one-way flights from Turkish Airlines and Lufthansa:

LHR-IST-HKG (2 hour connection) = £460
LHR-IST (48h stopover) then IST-HKG = £350

So the £110 saved paid for 2 nights accommodation and all spending money in Istanbul.

LHR-FRA-SFO in F as a mileage redemption, taxes = £450
Just FRA-SFO without feeder flight, taxes = £250

So the £200 saved paid for a flight LHR-FRA (£69 with BA) and a night's accommodation in FRA.

It's ridiculous how the money saved can give you an extra few days holiday in a different country.

mry

We live in the US and often travel to France.
It has actually prevented us on multiple occasions from spending an extra 2-3 day family holiday in London combined with an EU trip. It won't kill us, but why spend an extra $500-700 if we don't have to? The per diem amount isn't palatable.

jbfield

I'm always surprised no airline has yet to realise they could market their flights this way, combined with their local tourist promotion offices...

£450 for the connecting flight
...or...
take the option of £450 with a 'free' stopover in our hub city, with one night accommodation included...

seattle29

As long as the stopover is more than 24 hours, then the APD is only calculated to the first destination i.e. the hub EU airport. So yes, it could be a great marketing strategy!

alanR

Is the cost - time, money, stress - of flying to an EU airport on a separate ticket worth the alleged higher costs of a flight from GB?

If you have an itinerary that allows you to fly from outside the UK AND it saves money (which it might not) then consider it, but don't just look at the APD, say "I don't want to pay it" then subject yourself to extra travel time / travel costs / worry about missing your next flight to "save" money.

alanR

Assuming that the cost is indeed higher for US-France-UK-US compared to US-France-US because of APD why don't you do US-UK-France-US.

NewbieRunner

+1 ^

Some non-UK airlines set their fare for connecting passengers ex-UK which compensates for the APD. So UK-EU-XX is much cheaper than EU-XX in discount Business including the APD. It's similar to BA charging much lower TATL fares ex-Germany than ex-UK. Flying eastwards the difference does not make it worthwhile to add extra travel time and expenses.

NickB

Very few as most people pay for their tickets and the price of tickets to the UK is quite comparable to the price of tickets to other European destinations, APD notwithstanding (in other words: in practice, airlines largely absorb the cost of APD in their fares).

That, OTOH, is indeed an issue and it is the case that the hassle of having to get an extra visa just to visit the UK and Ireland when a Schengen visa gives you access to most of Europe is a disincentive. That said, the decision whether to be part of Schengen or not has rather more ramifications than whether to attract more Chinese tourists.

1010101

Thats not true for many airlines. Coming from the East, I have a QR booking in J that's almost £200 cheaper to CPH that it was to LHR - it's paying for me to look around a new city and the extra flight to London. It was £80 cheaper in Y.

China Eastern, Air China and China Southern are all approx £80 cheaper to fly to other major European destinations, 3 airlines the UK should really be wanting to attract.

NickB

OK, I took random dates in August on ITA (14 August outward and 21 August for the return to PEK) and asked it to show the cheapest Y fares between PEK and LON, PAR and ROM as three major touristic destinations in Europe to see what was the outcome (unticking the availability box to avoid distortions resulting from actual availability).

The 20 cheapest fares on those three routes combined were as follows:
Route Airline Cost
PEK-LHR SU £595
PEK-CDG SU £633
PEK-FCO SU £633
PEK-LHR CZ/KL £644
PEK-LHR OS £650
PEK-LHR HU/BA £661
PEK-CDG CZ £663
PEK-LHR CZ £676 (CZ-coded KL codeshare on AMS-LON)
PEK-FCO HU/SN £677
PEK-CDG AY £678
PEK-LHR AY £678
PEK-LHR LX £684
PEK-LCY LX £688
PEK-FCO AY £697
PEK-LHR KL £700
PEK-FCO AF £703
PEK-LHR AF £704
PEK-FCO TK £707
PEK-CDG OS £708
PEK-CDG LX £709
PEK-FCO LX £709

I think that this speaks for itself. I tried a second time but in business and the pattern was pretty much the same. Yes, you will always find the odd fare here and there where London is more expensive than Paris or Rome or some other European destination. Overall, though, it simply is not the case that fares to London are generally higher than fares to other European capitals.

lhrsfo

Travelling regularly between LHR and SFO, I often look into the idea of "breaking" the journey in the EU en route, especially when the fares seem high. I have yet to find a fare ex-continental Europe that was less than ex-LHR, with one exception earlier this year when it would have been cheaper ex-DUB, by about £50. However, the cost of getting to DUB, and allowing enough time there so as to make sure not to miss by connection, far exceeds the value of £50.

1010101

I cant replicate those prices on ITA even using the same criteria you used. Nonetheless, it really doesn't need a search like that to show it. You must compare like with like.

Go on the CZ website (using them as an example, given they're Asia largest airline) and price up any return to LHR and to CDG, far enough in advance that you can select the same fare class. The fares are the same, the fuel charges are the same, but the totals are always ¥902 more to LHR, and on the fare breakdown it makes it clear that is taxes and fees. That's about £85 on an economy flight, and you can do a similar thing with any major EU destination.

I'm fortunate enough to fly mostly J back to the UK, and the difference is roughly double that if I go direct.

NickB

What I did: enter PEK as origin, LON,PAR,ROM as destination, "cheapest available for cabin", untick "Only show flights and prices with available seats" to avoid availability distortions (and enter GBP in the currency box to have the fares expressed in GBP).

I am comparing like with like: I am comparing all fares available between PEK and the 3 destinations. I would have thought that looking at the whole of the market rather than arbitrarily restricting the search to one single airline would give you a far better idea as to whether your hypothesis (viz: APD makes flights to London more expensive than to elsewhere in Europe, thereby discouraging tourists) is correct or not.

If tourists can generally fly to London for more or less the same price as to Paris, then clearly your hypothesis is wrong, even if this happened not be true for your favourite airline on your favourite website.