We cannot do 'mixed mode' at the moment.

The only non-segregated ops we can conduct currently are:

TEAM (Tactically Enhance Arrival Measures); where, providing that the inbound delay is, or is expected to be, 20 minutes, we are permitted to land up to 6 aircraft an hour on the departure runway. We use TEAM quite often on westerly ops (i.e. a/c approaching over London and taking off towards Windsor). This trigger is 20 minutes because of the runway alternation programme which dictates which runway we should use for landing on westerlies due to noise.

On easterlies, there is no nominated arrival runway, however we are constrained by only being permitted to depart on 09R (the northern runway) (again due noise). Therefore, usually we land on 09L. However, if the outbound demand is low, we can land unrestricted on 09R.

Between the hours of 0600 and 0700 local, we can land on both runways, with the aim to get to 0700 with no inbound delay.

and was intended like Paris CDG to become the UK's main hub with several new runways planned to be added on in stages I believe

but of course in typical British fashion we didnt get round to it and the NIMBYs waged war

That wouldnt work as all alliances at LHR have long haul flights and Northolt would only be able to contain short haul and domestic flights

But I distinctly remember reading that a Minister had said that you were allowed to, maybe she meant TEAM.

No Hiddy, it is not/will not be about LHR, but this subject very well summarizes the reason why little can get done in the UK anymore, and when it is done it is stupidly expensive and often mediocre for what you get. You really think that T5 and all of the inherent infrastructure was/is worth over a decade of planning and NIMBY idiocy and the close to NINE BILLION DOLLARS THAT IT COST? Its ok, but really not wonderful or groundbreaking. Crossrail will be done when exactly? I believe that when originally planned it was going to be ready for the Queen's Jubilee (The Silver One, I am not joking). Look at the Luddism being thrown around this thread, some people saying , "maybe they should not have short haul flying from LHR", "maybe there should be less flights", etc.

I have taken work ut of the UK in recent years because I can get it done elsewhere (IN DEVELOPED COUNTRIES, not the third world) for half the cost, in half the time with better quality and better attitude. Endless planning BS, allowing everyone and their dog to have an opinion, letting H&S be the excuse for quite frankly anything that is inconvenient, and quibbling esoteric unimportant details to death, are all embodied in this debate, but have consequences far behind just allowing LHR to catch up to 1995 or so (i.e. building a third runway).

Completely agree with you

I am British and ashamed of all this

We sit around hearing about things like High speed rail in the UK being ready in 2026 from London to Birmingham whilst Germany and France already have high speed rail on all lines and between all cities

we hear about 'maybe in 20 years we will be ready for a 4 runway thames estuary airport' however most US airports, Paris, Amsterdam, Frankfurt, Madrid, Dubai HAVE 4 or more runways

we hear all these pathetic solutions to airport capacity like utilising southend to allow a few flights to malaga a year, maybe move a couple of long hauls from LHR to LGW, maybe build a rail line between LHR and LGW, use Birmingham for new flights to China, ban short haul flights from LHR etc all of these solutions are typical short sighted British 'make do and mend'

If we had a German attitude in this country we would have built R3 10 years ago and should now be building R4 or half way through building a new multi runway airport in the Thames Estuary, also high speed trains would be zooming across the country right now

But no, this is the unambitious nimby dominated UK run by an unambitious government

and in all fairness, Tony Blair announced aviation reviews in 2001 but his Labour government only decided to do anything in 2009, what on earth were they doing in the 8 years they could have been building R3???

I feel this every day I cross the building site that is Princes Street in Edinburgh - where they have been building trams for the last 5 years - they have laid the rails on Princes Street, taken then up and laid them again 3 times already and we are still two years away from seeing anything rolling on them. And when it's finished it will just be a link from the airport to the city centre which is already well served by buses and cabs.

The trams carry 250 people but only have 60 seats - if you have just got off a plane would you want to stand all the way into Edinburgh or go in a cab or a really quite nice Airbus with leather seats.

Goodness knows what a fiasco they will make of the new Forth Road Bridge..........

I dread to think

Im worried about the Aberdeen by pass which we have already waited around 12 years to finally (after the last appeal) get final approval of, no doubt it will take around 10 years and cost 5 times what they said it would cost. Now there is the city garden project as well, which I voted in favour of however I suspect it will cost a little over double the £140m projected cost and take around 3 times the 5 years it predicted to take to build

How many flights would be avoided if you could earn TPs on the Eurostar?

Actually, Virgin had a stake in London and Continental Railways while BA used to own part of Eurostar. So it wasn't such a strange possibility:

"Eurostar (UK) Ltd, another LCR subsidiary, owns and operates the UK arm of the Eurostar service. Eurostar (UK) is operated on LCR's behalf by a consortium of National Express Group, British Airways and the French and Belgian national railways (SNCF and SNCB). LCR's shareholders are the members of RLE (Bechtel, Arup, Systra and Halcrow), transport operators National Express Group and SNCF, electricity supply company EDF, and UBS investment bank."

I don't think BA still has an interest in Eurostar (Willie doesn't think so, anyway) so the source site must be out of date:

http://www.railwaybritain.co.uk/Lond...0Railways.html

Hence the creation of the IPC, an independent, national body which was to be responsible for assessing the planning applications for strategic infrastructure applications. After the T5 inquiry, it was realised that the planning system was not fit for purpose for things of national strategic importance - and with several new nuclear builds and new airport developments in the pipeline, it was realised they could not be delayed in planning like T5 was and the IPC was responsible for assessing the planning applications without the need for long lasting public inquiries.

Of course, the Tories have done away with the IPC in their Localism Bill. That was the Bill aimed at giving locals more say in planning.... The Planning Inspectorate - the body responsible for conducting Public Inquiries - now take responsibility for applications of strategic importance. I haven't followed the recent developments, so have no idea what this means in practice (system is different in Scotland).

I thought all the planning laws were changing today. I might be wrong though. I havent paid too much attention to it all.

Which is why hundreds of thousands of people all the way from Fulham to LHR on both flying paths and with no relief from alternation get woken up at 5.40am virtually every morning by the long string of 747s. Before you start saying "just move elsewhere, another nimby" etc, given the whole area has been allocated to residential housing (mostly lots of families with kids) and not factories or parks, this causes sleep deprivation to thousands of people and children, whoever ends up living there. This is not to mention pollution and the daily danger of hundreds of planes flying over central and west london all the time (AA587? BA38? Not to mention terrorism of course).

I am personally not affected but it's been said all along for decades that LHR is simply in the wrong place (West of the city with prevailing westerly winds) and that any proper economic costing shows these are expensive factors that need to be costed. Instead they are routinely ignored as they would change the costs/benefit argument..

You may dislike with Boris's suggestion for whatever reason but at least it's an honest attempt to taclke the problem at its root, something that Livingstone is not even thinking about. Any radical solution will take decades to implement and will leave a better city to our future generations. Expanding LHR will just make matters worse. Had we solved this decades ago, we would not be in the situation we are in now.

As an aside, I've always wondered why people consider that new high speed/maglev infrastructure to connect London airports would need new land or tunnelling. Would it not be cheaper and easier to install it above the existing motorway links (or their verges). Sure, the routing wouldn't be as direct, but savings in planning time and cost should off-set that...

But I speak from a position of utter ignorance!

Nice idea! I suspect that (playing Devil's advocate here, BTW) the delays on motorways due to constructing an upper level would not be accepted by the general public, nor would lack of access for rescue choppers. There would doubtless be a number of incidents involving artics hitting the pylons that would shut the system down for days at a time and it would make it easy for terrorists to plant bombs under the rail links just by throwing them out of a car window.

Stick 'em in tunnels.