englisha

If you really believe the main reason for your delay was not the weather, 1st write to TK asking for the compensation...When they say no (which it looks like they will), try a company that specializes in these claims (a google search for EU261 claim will show many). If they have no luck, then id say you're out of luck too, but might be worth a try.

Vasco Pridat

Well I do believe the main reason was the weather. I just don't believe the weather caused the 8h delay which was caused due to the lack of organization. I don't think you should have an airport as back up if there is no ground staff.
Again. It wasn't the 1h circling and diversion that was desasterous... It was that tk didn't manage the situation well.
But yes. Thank you.. That's exactly what i am doing. I was just looking for more information here about the actual situation and sfo had helped me.
So. Thank you.

axxoo25

Every flight has its slot. If the slot has been missed, the tower will give you another slot. Your flight missed its slot due to weather conditions.

TEQ is a commercial airport which is not really in use. Beside IST you have SAW which has heavy traffic for years now and that is why another runway is under construction. The next airport ist YEI, which is also a pure domestic airport.

AFAIK the next international airport are ADB and ESB.

How would you - as TK - allow people to immigrate into Turkey in TEQ?

Vasco Pridat

This was a real problem. I saw people stressed because they never planned but had to immigrate all of a sudden without a visa. A group was torn apart, cuz the Austrian needed a visa while the Germans didn't..
I talked to another Turkish passenger who landed at teq already 3months ago in the same situation.

slickvik

ISTFlyer

TEQ is an international airport which doesn't have any scheduled international flights but some daily flights to Ankara. SO, TEQ has the required customs facilities for an international arrival or departure. Also, this airport is used as a stopover point for charter flights departing from ECN to Europe as TRNC is not a recognized country by the European states and Europe doesn't allow direct flights from TRNC.

ISTFlyer

Yes but, obviously, TEQ and YEI are closer.

axxoo25

Sorry, but you meant THIS was the problem, didnt you?

TK doesnt have custom officers in its planes, because its not TKs job to organzie the immigration, its the job of each airport. The gouvernment lends custom officers to each airport, which pay for it.

If TEQ didnt have any flights that day, no custom officer was in duty.

So again, what should have TK organize beside telling the airport that they will land at TEQ (what obviously has happened)?

ISTFlyer

By the way, Atatürk Airport is NOT a backup airport and it is closed for civil operations.
Do you think that Tegel Airport would be ready in case of an IRROPS after Brandenburg has opened, I don't think so.

And yes, axooo25 is right. If a flight was diverted to an airport, it's the airports' responsibility to have the necessary amount of customs officers and facilities ready, not the airlines. So in this case, you must blame DHMİ instead of Turkish Airlines. Here is the statement of DHMİ why the diverts have occurred. Only in Turkish.
No one blamed United after the medical diversion early this year to Goose Bay, Canada when there was no immigration officers present and people had slept on the plane with one of the doors open for around 12 hours with limited food.

flyerby

Vasco Pridat

See. That's the interesting part here on flyer talk. People are looking for explanation for tk and not for the hundreds of people stranded.
Don't get me wrong again. I am calm and trying to see both sides.
And again. If teq doesn't have the facilities.. And tk decides to land there.. Then it is not a weather related problem. And the hundreds of passengers have a contract with tk. Not with an airport.
From my point that's exactly why 261 was set up.
To clarify that the airline is responsible for a delay. And only under certain conditions that are out of there hands they are not.
Again. The weather was on for a good hour. Other planes landed.
Its a different situation when u have a medical issue and you are over Greenland. Why are you bringing up this point? It's useless. The airline didn't have a choice.
Here they had numerous choices from my point of view. But they put an airport as back up without staff.
And I saw other planes that landed after us got refueled.. But not ours. They first told us we had to wait to get refueled cuz they only had one car.
I think I have gathered some interesting Information and will see whtlat tk will answer. Most likely they will call the weather anyway.
And I still disagree with their choice of handling this irrop...

Vasco Pridat

Great link thank you
If I get this right, they diverted 8 of 468 flights.. Bummer.

axxoo25

The intresting part is that you still didnt give us an answer what TK should have done. You are crying like the child who didnt get its jelly bean.

No one here was looking for an excuse for TK. It was you who started blaming TK for no reason. Instead of being thankful to us members here who face the facts you turn the whole situation vice versa and claim now that those members are excusing TK..

If TK wasnt an airline...
If TK wouldnt sell tickets..
If TK wouldnt fly to/from TXL..
If you were not born..

Do you know conditio sine qua non? Just think about it and remind, that TEQ was the very next airport. And TK did not decide where to land. I mean, do you really believe that air traffic works like car traffic? I mean, even in car traffic you are not allowed to park everywhere you want, right? why should a captain decide himself where to land? Dont you think that some other authoroties have put their salt & pepper into the food?

Just think about it.

And yes, hundreds of passengers have contracted with passengers and not with an airport. But the airport ist not available at this moment due to weather conditions. As mentioned above, every flight has its slot. And your flight missed its slot due to weather conditions.

ISTFlyer's link has some great information in it, which I want to share with you:

"For this reason, it is mandatory to keep air traffic in all air areas where cb clouds (pilots call them killer clouds) are formed, to stop the take-off or to direct traffic to other squares when necessary. During the aforementioned weather events, measures have been taken to ensure the safety of life and property in flight not only in Istanbul Airport but also in all Istanbul airspace. In this direction, only 8 out of 468 flights at Istanbul Airport and 94 out of 94 flights at Sabiha Gökçen Airport were diverted to other airports."

As you can see, even SAW was not an option to divert to.

Since TK is your contract partner and Istanbul airport was not available during your slot, would a turn back to TXL have been better?

Please, I am begging in every post of mine: WHAT should have TK done? Where is the lack of organization?

Maybe from your point of view, but in fact its not. Just read the reasons in the regulation.


Whats the path for this conclusion?
Numerous choices from your point of view, but in fact how manc choices did TK really have? Lets handle this easy: just tell us the choices you believe TK had.

Would you please stop telling TEQ is a back-up airport of TK? that is ridiclious!

Like we disagree with your choice ignoring the facts?

axxoo25

slot, honey, S-L-O-T!

Vasco Pridat

Smile.. I am not your honey.. But thank you.
By the way
​​​​​​. That's why people go to court. Both sides strongly believe in their point of view.

I have received some useful information here and from another skilled member through pm who has pointed out that.. " at least in the UK and I believe Germany there is increasing use of the "all reasonable measures" clause. So having diverted, did TK do absolutely everything possible to get you to Kigali without added delays? And though that would take further investigation, I do wonder what more could have been done" backing my view.
But I guess everything is said here and you kinda take this to a personal level. So we can end this discussion.