EU 261 for TXL IST? ... Desaster..
May 17, 2019, 3:38 pm
#1
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Join Date: Nov 2017
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EU 261 for TXL IST? ...
I need help with probably my worst experience so far.
The TXL IST flight 1722 was approaching Istanbul with some turbulence hitting. It was shaky to me but not too bad.. Well some people threw up.. And the captain finally pulled up again and decided to circle till the weather cleared. You could see it was only a local thing. We circled 45min till the captain announced to land at another airport. Not the other Istanbul Airport as I thought but at Tekirdag. Only 120km away but without any international service.
So we had landed 1h delayed at 4.10... Then we had to stay on the plane for 3h and 10min. With three announcements in between there was no ground staff to take care of us.
At 7.30 we could exit the plane. And they had organized now 4 police officers as we were told for us to immigrate.
1h later we were through and had picked up our bags leaving that airport at 8.40 on busses to Istanbul airport to arrive there at 11pm.
Of course we had missed our connection to Kigali and the first day there. The service on board was super friendly but we didn't get anything but drinks and rolls, dry bread till we left the plane. Then nothing but water till 11.
Service at ist was basic. No excuse no special service for elite members.. And no food voucher but offer to use a bus to another cheap hotel 30km away.
Now my question... Will I get full EU261?
It looked like we were the only plane that didn't land at ist today.. And even if they had to reroute due to weather.. If they were organized. We could have landed with an h delay.. Exit. Grab the bags.. And still make our flight.. But leave us sitting for 3 h? And so on..
I grabbed a cab to the Hilton on my behalf.. The Conrad is great here and I got a nice upgrade.. What will they compensate?
Thnx all for listening?
The TXL IST flight 1722 was approaching Istanbul with some turbulence hitting. It was shaky to me but not too bad.. Well some people threw up.. And the captain finally pulled up again and decided to circle till the weather cleared. You could see it was only a local thing. We circled 45min till the captain announced to land at another airport. Not the other Istanbul Airport as I thought but at Tekirdag. Only 120km away but without any international service.
So we had landed 1h delayed at 4.10... Then we had to stay on the plane for 3h and 10min. With three announcements in between there was no ground staff to take care of us.
At 7.30 we could exit the plane. And they had organized now 4 police officers as we were told for us to immigrate.
1h later we were through and had picked up our bags leaving that airport at 8.40 on busses to Istanbul airport to arrive there at 11pm.
Of course we had missed our connection to Kigali and the first day there. The service on board was super friendly but we didn't get anything but drinks and rolls, dry bread till we left the plane. Then nothing but water till 11.
Service at ist was basic. No excuse no special service for elite members.. And no food voucher but offer to use a bus to another cheap hotel 30km away.
Now my question... Will I get full EU261?
It looked like we were the only plane that didn't land at ist today.. And even if they had to reroute due to weather.. If they were organized. We could have landed with an h delay.. Exit. Grab the bags.. And still make our flight.. But leave us sitting for 3 h? And so on..
I grabbed a cab to the Hilton on my behalf.. The Conrad is great here and I got a nice upgrade.. What will they compensate?
Thnx all for listening?
Last edited by Vasco Pridat; May 18, 2019 at 1:43 am
May 17, 2019, 5:00 pm
#3
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As Max mentioned, you are not eligible for the EU compensation. You should have requested meal vouchers at the hotel desk when the agent handed you the necessary documents for your hotel. Also, they would not reimburse you for your self booked hotel and your transportation costs over there.
By the way, moderator, please move this discussion to the EU 261 compensation thread.
By the way, moderator, please move this discussion to the EU 261 compensation thread.
May 17, 2019, 6:26 pm
#4
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When I see the word "disaster" I expect that there was an aircraft crash with a loss of life. This was a minor inconvenience and it sounds as thought he crew made the right call.
You are not due any delay compensation under EC 261/2004. Seems quite clear that the Captain was forced to divert. While you may have wanted a closer airport, diversions are not there for your comfort, but your safety.
You are not due any delay compensation under EC 261/2004. Seems quite clear that the Captain was forced to divert. While you may have wanted a closer airport, diversions are not there for your comfort, but your safety.
May 17, 2019, 10:20 pm
#5
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When I see the word "disaster" I expect that there was an aircraft crash with a loss of life. This was a minor inconvenience and it sounds as thought he crew made the right call.
You are not due any delay compensation under EC 261/2004. Seems quite clear that the Captain was forced to divert. While you may have wanted a closer airport, diversions are not there for your comfort, but your safety.
You are not due any delay compensation under EC 261/2004. Seems quite clear that the Captain was forced to divert. While you may have wanted a closer airport, diversions are not there for your comfort, but your safety.
We don't know all the details of this specific flight, so it's hard to comment on times spent waiting, decision to divert to this specific airport, etc
Last edited by SFOTraveler1984; May 17, 2019 at 10:29 pm
May 18, 2019, 1:42 am
#6
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Well. Thank you so far. I was more looking for facts than for feelings. I am surprised you take sides for an airline that has brought me and many others in this situation by what we the people involved feel was there fault.
I was looking for someone here who actually had information about the actual situation at Istanbul Airport at that time if the diversion was even necessary.
And again. The inconvenience was not due to severe weather but to a totally incompetent organization.
I'm OK if disaster is too harsh and take it out.
It was a disaster for me as I have lost very much to what seems very little. And all I'm asking is to be treated decent.
I was looking for someone here who actually had information about the actual situation at Istanbul Airport at that time if the diversion was even necessary.
And again. The inconvenience was not due to severe weather but to a totally incompetent organization.
I'm OK if disaster is too harsh and take it out.
It was a disaster for me as I have lost very much to what seems very little. And all I'm asking is to be treated decent.
May 18, 2019, 1:46 am
#7
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 310
Well. Thank you so far. I was more looking for facts than for feelings. I am surprised you take sides for an airline that has brought me and many others in this situation by what we the people involved feel was there fault.
I was looking for someone here who actually had information about the actual situation at Istanbul Airport at that time if the diversion was even necessary.
And again. The inconvenience was not due to severe weather but to a totally incompetent organization.
I'm OK if disaster is too harsh and take it out.
It was a disaster for me as I have lost very much to what seems very little. And all I'm asking is to be treated decent.
I was looking for someone here who actually had information about the actual situation at Istanbul Airport at that time if the diversion was even necessary.
And again. The inconvenience was not due to severe weather but to a totally incompetent organization.
I'm OK if disaster is too harsh and take it out.
It was a disaster for me as I have lost very much to what seems very little. And all I'm asking is to be treated decent.
It was due to the winds. It made its ways into the news. You can use google translate to see that it was indeed weather related. You should always make sure to know who is presenting facts, and who is presenting feelings.
https://t24.com.tr/haber/istanbul-havalimani-nda-inislere-ruzgar-engeli-ucaklar-havada-tur-atmak-zorunda-kaliyor,821858
May 18, 2019, 2:02 am
#8
Join Date: May 2016
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Well. Thank you so far. I was more looking for facts than for feelings. I am surprised you take sides for an airline that has brought me and many others in this situation by what we the people involved feel was there fault.
I was looking for someone here who actually had information about the actual situation at Istanbul Airport at that time if the diversion was even necessary.
And again. The inconvenience was not due to severe weather but to a totally incompetent organization.
I'm OK if disaster is too harsh and take it out.
It was a disaster for me as I have lost very much to what seems very little. And all I'm asking is to be treated decent.
I was looking for someone here who actually had information about the actual situation at Istanbul Airport at that time if the diversion was even necessary.
And again. The inconvenience was not due to severe weather but to a totally incompetent organization.
I'm OK if disaster is too harsh and take it out.
It was a disaster for me as I have lost very much to what seems very little. And all I'm asking is to be treated decent.
Looking at Flightradar24, your flight TK1722 was the first to divert to TEQ.
It wasn't the only flight though. Also TK1924 diverted to TEQ after what looks to me like a go-around at IST. Same for TK1758, TK1798, TK2261, TK1366 and TK2647.
You are correct that other flights landed at IST during this time, but the fact that several flights went around and then diverted tells me that something weather-related was going on - some of the above flights didn't even try to land at IST but headed straight to TEQ. Maybe ATC?
IRROPS are always challenging for an airline and TK is known for being not the most helpful airline in case of IRROPS. So I feel for you when you say the aftermath of the diversion could have been organized better.
But looking at the information we have here I do not see any wrongdoing or incompetence on TK side with respect to the diversion itself. If a crew deems a diversion necessary than that decision should be respected.
May 18, 2019, 4:18 am
#9
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I am sorry but this is not your call but that of the captain's as to whether or not to divert. You can't make the judgement that the diversion was not due to weather as you were not the one flying that plane. Your life and the lives of the other passengers are more important than any inconvenience.
May 18, 2019, 6:15 am
#10
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Hi Vasco, alright, let's try to bring some more facts into the discussion.
You are correct that other flights landed at IST during this time,
IRROPS are always challenging for an airline and TK is known for being not the most helpful airline in case of IRROPS. So I feel for you when you say the aftermath of the diversion could have been organized better.
But looking at the information we have here I do not see any wrongdoing or incompetence on TK side with respect to the diversion itself. If a crew deems a diversion necessary than that decision should be respected.
I don't really understand most of the other reactions here. But whatever.
Everyone knows that safety is most important.
But I am not talking about risking anything. I am talking and asking about what is the best or worst possible way to treat a situation like this.
Now looking at your facts that other planes landed at Istanbul at that time.. Why were some diverted?
And also my biggest concern is.. Why did they send us to an airport that was not able to handle the situation?
And I am not talking about a hurricane or the day after situation.. You could see that it was clearly one maybe 2 hours of strong winds.
They landed at nlan Airport without ground staff.
They kept us for more than 3h in the plane and cut out power. They did not supply food for 6hours.
Was that the best they could do in that situation?
If we had landed at tec and then disembark and take the bus or can to Istanbul Airport I could have made my connection. You know what I mean?it was not the weather.. It was there ...... irrop management.
And OK. Sfo.. If that is the fact that TK handles irrops like that.. I learned my lesson. It's easy to avoid them.
I don't need an umbrella for sunshine.
I need a good management and fast decisions when problems occur.
May 18, 2019, 7:20 am
#11
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Ask yourself why a for-profit commercial aircraft would divert an aircraft unless there was a good reason to do so. It makes no sense. Not only does it inconvenience customers, but it leaves the aircraft and crew out of position. For better or worse, TK had to ferry that aircraft back to IST as well as organize transportation for you. This cost TK a great deal of money.
Whatever your worldview, you may be assured that air carriers and passengers have a mutual goal of a safe and ontime arrival.
Once you accept that nobody diverts without a very good reason, turn to the choice of diversion airport. That is generally not the Captain's judgment other than in immediate onboard emergencies, not present here. The diversion points are loaded into the flight computer before you left TXL. At the time of the diversion, you would then be diverted to the nearest airport which can safely accommodate the aircraft. There may have been closer alternatives, but unless you have the expertise and factual knowledge, those may not have been available, may also have had poor landing conditions or otherwise not selectable.
The chose airport was absolutely a good choice. It may have lacked luxury, but it was safe and you are safe. That is what diversions are about.
TK may have done a poor job of handling the service recovery, but it is not always so easy to accomplish on a split second's notice. Nonetheless, even a poorly-organized service recovery which falls short of what one might want is not grounds for EC 261/2004 compensation.
Whatever your worldview, you may be assured that air carriers and passengers have a mutual goal of a safe and ontime arrival.
Once you accept that nobody diverts without a very good reason, turn to the choice of diversion airport. That is generally not the Captain's judgment other than in immediate onboard emergencies, not present here. The diversion points are loaded into the flight computer before you left TXL. At the time of the diversion, you would then be diverted to the nearest airport which can safely accommodate the aircraft. There may have been closer alternatives, but unless you have the expertise and factual knowledge, those may not have been available, may also have had poor landing conditions or otherwise not selectable.
The chose airport was absolutely a good choice. It may have lacked luxury, but it was safe and you are safe. That is what diversions are about.
TK may have done a poor job of handling the service recovery, but it is not always so easy to accomplish on a split second's notice. Nonetheless, even a poorly-organized service recovery which falls short of what one might want is not grounds for EC 261/2004 compensation.
May 18, 2019, 8:37 am
#12
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TK may have done a poor job of handling the service recovery, but it is not always so easy to accomplish on a split second's notice. Nonetheless, even a poorly-organized service recovery which falls short of what one might want is not grounds for EC 261/2004 compensation.
But definitely not about the last. This is exactly why EU261 came up. So carriers have certain rules to follow without people going to court over every case.
And if poor organization leeds to 8h delay and loss in connection and me having to book a hotel and missing out.. Then yes. This is what is supposed to be compensated.
Again. If this is there back up airport. Why not have it ready?
If they cannot take off because there ground staff is missing. They have to compensate after 3h..
So you tell me this does not work because 1h of storm was in the way?
Could be.. But hard to follow.
May 18, 2019, 8:43 am
#13
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 310
I agree with the whole first part absolutely.
But definitely not about the last. This is exactly why EU261 came up. So carriers have certain rules to follow without people going to court over every case.
And if poor organization leeds to 8h delay and loss in connection and me having to book a hotel and missing out.. Then yes. This is what is supposed to be compensated.
Again. If this is there back up airport. Why not have it ready?
If they cannot take off because there ground staff is missing. They have to compensate after 3h..
So you tell me this does not work because 1h of storm was in the way?
Could be.. But hard to follow.
But definitely not about the last. This is exactly why EU261 came up. So carriers have certain rules to follow without people going to court over every case.
And if poor organization leeds to 8h delay and loss in connection and me having to book a hotel and missing out.. Then yes. This is what is supposed to be compensated.
Again. If this is there back up airport. Why not have it ready?
If they cannot take off because there ground staff is missing. They have to compensate after 3h..
So you tell me this does not work because 1h of storm was in the way?
Could be.. But hard to follow.
The rules are clear wıth EU261. If the delay is weather related, no compensation is due. Thus, what you experienced is not why EU 261 came up.
May 18, 2019, 9:52 am
#14
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I agree with the whole first part absolutely.
But definitely not about the last. This is exactly why EU261 came up. So carriers have certain rules to follow without people going to court over every case.
And if poor organization leeds to 8h delay and loss in connection and me having to book a hotel and missing out.. Then yes. This is what is supposed to be compensated.
Again. If this is there back up airport. Why not have it ready?
If they cannot take off because there ground staff is missing. They have to compensate after 3h..
So you tell me this does not work because 1h of storm was in the way?
Could be.. But hard to follow.
But definitely not about the last. This is exactly why EU261 came up. So carriers have certain rules to follow without people going to court over every case.
And if poor organization leeds to 8h delay and loss in connection and me having to book a hotel and missing out.. Then yes. This is what is supposed to be compensated.
Again. If this is there back up airport. Why not have it ready?
If they cannot take off because there ground staff is missing. They have to compensate after 3h..
So you tell me this does not work because 1h of storm was in the way?
Could be.. But hard to follow.
None of that has to do with duty of care. That is not compensation. If the delay incurred reasonable expenses for a hotel or meals those, of course are reimburseable by TK if TK refused to provide vouchers.
This was a weather-related delay under circumstances which caused a sufficient safety issue to require a diversion. That ends your claim for compensation.
May 18, 2019, 1:54 pm
#15
Join Date: Jun 2018
Programs: TK Elite
Posts: 246
Well. Thank you so far. I was more looking for facts than for feelings. I am surprised you take sides for an airline that has brought me and many others in this situation by what we the people involved feel was there fault.
I was looking for someone here who actually had information about the actual situation at Istanbul Airport at that time if the diversion was even necessary.
And again. The inconvenience was not due to severe weather but to a totally incompetent organization.
I'm OK if disaster is too harsh and take it out.
It was a disaster for me as I have lost very much to what seems very little. And all I'm asking is to be treated decent.
I was looking for someone here who actually had information about the actual situation at Istanbul Airport at that time if the diversion was even necessary.
And again. The inconvenience was not due to severe weather but to a totally incompetent organization.
I'm OK if disaster is too harsh and take it out.
It was a disaster for me as I have lost very much to what seems very little. And all I'm asking is to be treated decent.
And beside that, it was not TK that brought you in "this situation" but the wheater conditions did. When you are talking about totally incompetent organization, share with TK what you would have done instead - it seems, you would have done it well (I can't say better because TK did not a good job from your point of view). Just saying "totally incompetent ogranization" doesnt help anyone. Same situation, when you are asking questions like TK did something wrong - you act like you know everything better, but in fact you dont.
And finally, it is not a desaster for you either because you just lost time/your connection.. you did not lose your life or your total trip because you arent in a hospital (which could have happend if the captain decided to land and crashed the plane).
This is why you are treated the way you are treated by members here - and please dont say that they take side for TK, we are bringing just facts up and it seems you can not handle those totally.
