Vietnam
Feb 18, 2004 | 3:04 pm
#16
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by ozstamps:
I have vacationed in Vietnam several times. And in Laos and Cambodia.
Three of the greatest places anyone could wish to visit. THE nicest people on earth and SO forgiving of the atrocities inflicted on them largely by Americans.
As to anyone saying the Vietnamese slant on the war is biased you are kidding right?
You ARE kidding right???
Lets see how you in the USA would feel one day if someone dropped 75 MILLION litres of the most carcinogenic, mutagenic, Dioxin defoliant liquids on earth onto you - Agent Orange.
USA (and also Australian) military that even went NEAR those sealed canisters are still suffering. Skin diseases, horrible baby deformities, all kinds of terrible medical side-effects - 30 years on.
Imagine how it was like to have this evil stuff indiscriminately dropped on your HEAD? By a scared US military - a good % of whom were so off their face with Heroin addiction they did not know or care what they were doing to whom. On your crops you ate, on the animals you ate and milked? And all this on mostly innocent farmers?
Craig6Z is correct ... on my first visit, a long time back that is what the Museum was called.
And "American War Atrocities" was a very apt name IMHO.
Anyone who has been to Laos and seen first hand the insane carpet bombing done there will not be too forthcoming with their comments.
Unexploded USA ordinance is still a massive problem in the countryside, killing and maiming hundreds of innocent Laotions each year. Same in Cambodia. But they are not Americans, so they do not count of course.
Some notes on my second visit to Vietnam (+ Laos) and Cu Chi tunnels etc:
http://www.glenstephens.com/indochina.htm
And do not forget neighbouring Cambodia where the USA secretly funded the Khmer Rouge under Pol Pot to wipe out a third of the entire population by genocide "as those guys are better to have in our pocket and so not join the Viet Cong commies".
http://www.glenstephens.com/cambodia.html
That year Henry Kissinger - who secretly approved all this won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1973 right in the middle of all this. Go look it up.
www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,900496,00.html
http://laughingmeme.org/archives/000180.html
Adolf Hilter was a nominee in 1938 of course for the Nobel Peace Prize, so history does sometimes tells us strange things when you look back on it.
My tip in Vietnam ... spend a few days in Hoi An in the centre of the country, near Hue or Dan Dang. Each time I go I get about 20 vietnamese silk shirts hand made. A few $$ each. A special kind of silk that is impossible to crease. Superb for travelling.
Must be time for another trip actually ....
</font>
I have vacationed in Vietnam several times. And in Laos and Cambodia.
Three of the greatest places anyone could wish to visit. THE nicest people on earth and SO forgiving of the atrocities inflicted on them largely by Americans.
As to anyone saying the Vietnamese slant on the war is biased you are kidding right?
You ARE kidding right???
Lets see how you in the USA would feel one day if someone dropped 75 MILLION litres of the most carcinogenic, mutagenic, Dioxin defoliant liquids on earth onto you - Agent Orange.
USA (and also Australian) military that even went NEAR those sealed canisters are still suffering. Skin diseases, horrible baby deformities, all kinds of terrible medical side-effects - 30 years on.
Imagine how it was like to have this evil stuff indiscriminately dropped on your HEAD? By a scared US military - a good % of whom were so off their face with Heroin addiction they did not know or care what they were doing to whom. On your crops you ate, on the animals you ate and milked? And all this on mostly innocent farmers?
Craig6Z is correct ... on my first visit, a long time back that is what the Museum was called.
And "American War Atrocities" was a very apt name IMHO.
Anyone who has been to Laos and seen first hand the insane carpet bombing done there will not be too forthcoming with their comments.
Unexploded USA ordinance is still a massive problem in the countryside, killing and maiming hundreds of innocent Laotions each year. Same in Cambodia. But they are not Americans, so they do not count of course.
Some notes on my second visit to Vietnam (+ Laos) and Cu Chi tunnels etc:
http://www.glenstephens.com/indochina.htm
And do not forget neighbouring Cambodia where the USA secretly funded the Khmer Rouge under Pol Pot to wipe out a third of the entire population by genocide "as those guys are better to have in our pocket and so not join the Viet Cong commies".
http://www.glenstephens.com/cambodia.html
That year Henry Kissinger - who secretly approved all this won the Nobel Peace Prize in 1973 right in the middle of all this. Go look it up.
www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,900496,00.html
http://laughingmeme.org/archives/000180.html
Adolf Hilter was a nominee in 1938 of course for the Nobel Peace Prize, so history does sometimes tells us strange things when you look back on it.
My tip in Vietnam ... spend a few days in Hoi An in the centre of the country, near Hue or Dan Dang. Each time I go I get about 20 vietnamese silk shirts hand made. A few $$ each. A special kind of silk that is impossible to crease. Superb for travelling.
Must be time for another trip actually ....
</font>
http://library.trinity.wa.edu.au/sub...st/vietnam.htm
Feb 18, 2004 | 4:29 pm
#18
In memoriam
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naxos :
This is the hotel I stayed in:
MEKONG ANGKOR VILLA
Siem Reap Angkor Cambodia
Sivutha Road No. 021, Group 1
Svaydangkum Commune
(behind The Mekong Bank)
Tel/Fax (855-63) 963 636
Mobile (855-12) 836 343
(855-12) 933 166
E-mail [email protected]
'' [email protected]
It is a nice new (2 years old) 24 room hotel with aircon..TV .very clean and private..the owners are real nice and they took me out on night to one of their local 'discos". I am trying to recall the name of the host..but it escapes me at the moment. By all means give it a shot..it is close to town (walking distance)..yet quiet at night. When I was there..a second complex was being built..so there are probaly at least 50 rooms by now. It is owner/operated and extremely friendly.
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MRKEY
[This message has been edited by MRKEY (edited Feb 18, 2004).]
This is the hotel I stayed in:
MEKONG ANGKOR VILLA
Siem Reap Angkor Cambodia
Sivutha Road No. 021, Group 1
Svaydangkum Commune
(behind The Mekong Bank)
Tel/Fax (855-63) 963 636
Mobile (855-12) 836 343
(855-12) 933 166
E-mail [email protected]
'' [email protected]
It is a nice new (2 years old) 24 room hotel with aircon..TV .very clean and private..the owners are real nice and they took me out on night to one of their local 'discos". I am trying to recall the name of the host..but it escapes me at the moment. By all means give it a shot..it is close to town (walking distance)..yet quiet at night. When I was there..a second complex was being built..so there are probaly at least 50 rooms by now. It is owner/operated and extremely friendly.
------------------
MRKEY
[This message has been edited by MRKEY (edited Feb 18, 2004).]
Feb 18, 2004 | 10:50 pm
#19
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by naxos:
Yay! Going back to Vietnam in 2 weeks with an add on to Angkor. OZ Any hotel recommendations for Siem Reap?</font>
Yay! Going back to Vietnam in 2 weeks with an add on to Angkor. OZ Any hotel recommendations for Siem Reap?</font>
naxos, my trip report linked above from 4 years back was as it happens rather prophetic:
I wish I could invest in land around this Angkor Wat area - it could be THE boom tourist site of this century, now the country is a lot safer to visit. In February 1999 only 3000 foreign visitors arrived there. By February 2000 it was up to 18,000 - you do the Math! A figure of 50,000+ by next year would not surprise me. Maybe double that. What a place to own a hotel! Go see it NOW before Pizza Huts, Macdonald's and Sheratons dot the landscape!
I think right now there is a TON of accommodation to choose from. And more going up each day ..... rather sadly.
A FT'er I have met from DC Suzy1K was there a month or so back and seemed pretty shocked at all the hotels going up. She might like to add some recent first hand info if she sees this thread?
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Try and make it down to SYD for "OZ FEST 2004" - May 21-23
[This message has been edited by ozstamps (edited Feb 19, 2004).]
Feb 19, 2004 | 11:58 am
#21
In memoriam
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naxos..I believe the guy's name is Leak...tell him in your e-mail that I refered you to him (I'm the American named Stuart he took to the nightclub with his cousin the jeweler who lives in California)..he should remember me because we both have the same watches.. a Citizen 'Navihawk'..it might ring a bell with him..I was on the second floor right hand corner in front. Enjoy your trip! BTW.. Where are you staying in Vietnam?
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MRKEY
[This message has been edited by MRKEY (edited Feb 19, 2004).]
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MRKEY
[This message has been edited by MRKEY (edited Feb 19, 2004).]
Feb 20, 2004 | 5:45 pm
#22
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The War Museum in Belgrade, Serbia doesn't think much of us either! We were there for 9/11. Very strange. Across from our Hyatt was a building we bombed. Also, absolutely no one thinks we made a "mistake" bombing the Chinese Embassy. It was used by the Serbs for communications after we bombed all theirs. As they point out, we bombed it 3 times!!
Feb 20, 2004 | 6:23 pm
#23
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 277
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by naxos:
Any hotel recommendations for Siem Reap?\\[/B]</font>
Any hotel recommendations for Siem Reap?\\[/B]</font>
We were in Siem Reap last June and stayed at Passaggio Boutique Hotel. Nice enough place, we hired a guide and driver from the front desk. We found the hotel through www.asia-hotels.com. However, several months later I received a call from my cc company asking if I recently made a purchase in Cambodia. No! Someone had submitted a charge on my cc for hotel lodging (not the same hotel we stayed at). I did not use my cc anywhere else while in Siem Reap so the connection was the hotel.
Feb 20, 2004 | 9:44 pm
#24
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My suggestion on restaurants is to only go to those that are privately owned or by foreign organizations. Otherwise the service is very bad in general- since waiters are not on tips they just don't care. Especially in Hue at Huong Giang Hotel- terrible. Do not eat ice cream in this country- all around bad quality- even at the "Italian" ice cream parlours.
In HCMC- was robbed at the Hotel Saigon. My own fault for not locking money in the safe- still it was well hidden. When I reported it the staff told me they would check the security cameras and what do you know the one camera on my floor was broke. Staff told me it couldn't have been the maid because they work in twos- as if they couldn't have split it.
A lot of places have signs saying they accept American Express but in reality they don't. And if they do, especially at department stores, you will charged an additional fee- usually quite hefty.
HCMC is a good place to have dentistry done-most of the upscale dentists are very reasonable in price (root canal $120) and very good service.
Also- Vietnam Airlines for domestic flights was excellent- $70 for F cabin where they serve hot meals. Their Golden Lotus Lounge in Saigon is nice and has a wide array of fruit juices, hot meals, and snacks (beats the hell out of any Worldclub).
Government officials are generally very easy to bribe except if you are attempting entry without a visa.
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KLM PE,HHonors Diamond,SPG Plat,PC Plat,SAS Silver
In HCMC- was robbed at the Hotel Saigon. My own fault for not locking money in the safe- still it was well hidden. When I reported it the staff told me they would check the security cameras and what do you know the one camera on my floor was broke. Staff told me it couldn't have been the maid because they work in twos- as if they couldn't have split it.
A lot of places have signs saying they accept American Express but in reality they don't. And if they do, especially at department stores, you will charged an additional fee- usually quite hefty.
HCMC is a good place to have dentistry done-most of the upscale dentists are very reasonable in price (root canal $120) and very good service.
Also- Vietnam Airlines for domestic flights was excellent- $70 for F cabin where they serve hot meals. Their Golden Lotus Lounge in Saigon is nice and has a wide array of fruit juices, hot meals, and snacks (beats the hell out of any Worldclub).
Government officials are generally very easy to bribe except if you are attempting entry without a visa.
------------------
KLM PE,HHonors Diamond,SPG Plat,PC Plat,SAS Silver
Feb 20, 2004 | 9:57 pm
#25
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MRKEY I will e mail Leak_ It sounds like he will remember your visit. I plad to stay at the Sofitel Plaza in Saigon- we stayed there last July and it was ok- the Majestic is still under construction I think. Thanks for the hotel recommendation.
Sactoroy I think I will avoid that hotel and watch my cc.
Sactoroy I think I will avoid that hotel and watch my cc.
Feb 21, 2004 | 12:16 am
#26
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I highly recommend Vietnam. I have traveled to many countries in the world and can say that I have not met friendlier people anywhere. If you are an American, frankly, I think you will find a warmer reception in Vietnam than in many countries in Europe. Remember too, that about half the population of Vietnam was born after the war. Also, I would go to the tunnels. Outside of the expected informational bias at the Cu Chi Underground Tunnel, I did not experience any anti-Americanism whatsoever. (As a previous poster mentioned, do not miss the firing range.)
The food may be some of the best in Asia and some of the least expensive. I ate at perhaps the best new restaurant in Vietnam on its opening day, Nam Phan, 64 Le Thanh Tan Street, HCMC/Saigon and ordered some of the most expensive items and the bill was $42 and that was about twice the bill at any other top restaurant. The restaurant had great service and has a stunning dcor.
I also recommend Mandarine in HCMC. Elegant and fabulous. Lemon Grass is a great lunch spot.
I stayed at the Sofitel in HCMC. World Class.
In Hue, the restaurant Tropical Garden is lovely. I stayed at the most lovely old world hotel in Huethe Hotel Saigon Morin. The wood in the room is exquisite and I have never seen such fine silks on chairs almost anywhere as in my room
In Hanoi, I stayed at the classic Sofitel Metropole Hotel, a hotel with real history. Had some very nice meals at Emperor and Club Opera (same owners). Emperor had outdoor dining and was more elegant.
In general, the food was better in HCMC. Also, some interesting choices for those interesting in culinary adventuresfried scorpion anyoneno, not like chicken, but crunchy.
The art and crafts were generally better buys in Hanoi, although HCMC has a thriving business of selling copies of paintings. If you ever wanted an old master, this is the place for around $100. Unbelievably, great places to buy local crafts (as in great lacquer) are in the local malls in both HCMC and Hanoi. The malls are modern looking, but the crafts are local and there are excellent buys. I mean truly excellent.
I also bought some high quality art from one of Vietnams top female painters. Not cheap, but stunning. Hillary Clinton and Putin even have her paintings. A tour of her and her husbands (also an artist) sculpture garden is well worth the visit. Details upon request.
I had the land portion of my trip arranged through a travel agency in Bangkok that I found on the Internet, Royal Exclusive Travel. It was a deluxe tour and I had a guide and driver in each city. Everything was well done.
All in all, I can not wait to go back.
The food may be some of the best in Asia and some of the least expensive. I ate at perhaps the best new restaurant in Vietnam on its opening day, Nam Phan, 64 Le Thanh Tan Street, HCMC/Saigon and ordered some of the most expensive items and the bill was $42 and that was about twice the bill at any other top restaurant. The restaurant had great service and has a stunning dcor.
I also recommend Mandarine in HCMC. Elegant and fabulous. Lemon Grass is a great lunch spot.
I stayed at the Sofitel in HCMC. World Class.
In Hue, the restaurant Tropical Garden is lovely. I stayed at the most lovely old world hotel in Huethe Hotel Saigon Morin. The wood in the room is exquisite and I have never seen such fine silks on chairs almost anywhere as in my room
In Hanoi, I stayed at the classic Sofitel Metropole Hotel, a hotel with real history. Had some very nice meals at Emperor and Club Opera (same owners). Emperor had outdoor dining and was more elegant.
In general, the food was better in HCMC. Also, some interesting choices for those interesting in culinary adventuresfried scorpion anyoneno, not like chicken, but crunchy.
The art and crafts were generally better buys in Hanoi, although HCMC has a thriving business of selling copies of paintings. If you ever wanted an old master, this is the place for around $100. Unbelievably, great places to buy local crafts (as in great lacquer) are in the local malls in both HCMC and Hanoi. The malls are modern looking, but the crafts are local and there are excellent buys. I mean truly excellent.
I also bought some high quality art from one of Vietnams top female painters. Not cheap, but stunning. Hillary Clinton and Putin even have her paintings. A tour of her and her husbands (also an artist) sculpture garden is well worth the visit. Details upon request.
I had the land portion of my trip arranged through a travel agency in Bangkok that I found on the Internet, Royal Exclusive Travel. It was a deluxe tour and I had a guide and driver in each city. Everything was well done.
All in all, I can not wait to go back.
Feb 21, 2004 | 1:12 am
#27
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Nevsky:
(As a previous poster mentioned, do not miss the firing range.)
</font>
(As a previous poster mentioned, do not miss the firing range.)
</font>
You mean they allow dumb tourists to shoot up the hillsides with AK47's?
http://www.glenstephens.com/ak-47.jpg
Feb 21, 2004 | 10:36 pm
#29
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<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by unitra:
I want to visit Haiphong where I spent two months in the Navy in 1956! Does anyone have any experience there?
</font>
I want to visit Haiphong where I spent two months in the Navy in 1956! Does anyone have any experience there?
</font>
The very first time I went to Ha Long Bay (a very long time back when tourism was basically non existent) was via Haiphong where there is a ferry.
The few alleged Ha Long Bay 'hotels' were appalling Communist built dumps from the 1950s to cater for the party cadres. How things have changed.
Road improvements mean tourists generally skip this route via a new road. (And thankfully to new hotels in Ha Long!)
Haiphong is an INCREDIBLY dirty industrial port city was my impression. Think Glasgow or Newcastle 1870s.
A huge industry in the area is coal. Vietnam is a major producer and exporter.
I recall to this day seeing an Industrial Revolution type scene in the harbour of laborers shoveling coal on and off barges. These poor sods were literally covered head to toe in thick black coal dust. Looked like an Al Jolson casting try-out.
Their lungs I am sure are ruined after a few years of this.
Welcome to the third world.
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Try and make it down to SYD for "OZ FEST 2004" - May 21-23
~ Glen ~ sipping bubbly from UA 747-400 exit row 15A near you SOON!
Feb 22, 2004 | 8:05 pm
#30
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I spend a night in Haiphong each time I visit the country and ozstamps description is spot on. Its a very busy port and grotty but I find it somewhat fascinating, just like the rest of the country. Its an experience travelling there from Hanoi down 'that' highway. Done it maybe a dozen times and never without a very nasty looking accident at some point involving a bike !!. Only one flight a day from Saigon and that's been cancelled on me twice, which means a rush down the mad road to fly from Hanoi.
The people I see in Haiphong all fought in the war and when I go out for a meal with them they tell some incredible tales about the war, mainly how 'predictable' the americans became after a while with what they bombed !!. As others have said, they hold no animosity whatsoever about the past.
In Saigon always stay in the Renaissance in District 1. Club/Executive floor is about 110 US a night which is fantastic for us Brits at the moment with the exchange rate. Fabulous views of the Saigon river and central for most places.
Far and away my favourite country in the world. I can't wait for my next visit, which starts on Saturday !!
The people I see in Haiphong all fought in the war and when I go out for a meal with them they tell some incredible tales about the war, mainly how 'predictable' the americans became after a while with what they bombed !!. As others have said, they hold no animosity whatsoever about the past.
In Saigon always stay in the Renaissance in District 1. Club/Executive floor is about 110 US a night which is fantastic for us Brits at the moment with the exchange rate. Fabulous views of the Saigon river and central for most places.
Far and away my favourite country in the world. I can't wait for my next visit, which starts on Saturday !!