Don't be embarassed and don't think its a norm ... there is a LOT of variety out there despite the pressure seen here for 20% and up.

As a Brit, I don't tip. People advertise a service and it's up to them how much they choose to charge for the service. If an employee feels he or she is not being properly remunerated, then he or she should take it up with the employer, not the customer.

Wirelessly posted (Palm TX: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; PalmSource/Palm-D050; Blazer/4.3) 16;320x320)

This thread reminds me that NY is the tipping capital of the world.

I agree.

$20 is appropriate IMHO - but do check to see whether your friends have already tipped. We have been using the same car service in So.FL for 15 years and, when they changed their system in the computer, they started adding the tip if you requested same. When I travel I follow the norms of the country.

Your cultural insensitivity really is unbelievable.

I am sure they tip when they feel it is justified. I do, too.

But to make the tip an integral part of the service price thereby subsidizing the salary is a misguided system. It has nothing to do with cultural insensitivity. Just because you travel or live in a certain country doesn't mean you must adopt all the customs no matter how stupid they are and how much they go against your own believes.

As a matter of fact, many Americans tip in Europe as if they were in America, thereby spoiling European service personnel. It's just as insensitive culturally.

Till

The idea of working for an insufficient wage is something that makes me feel uncomfortable. It presses many wrong buttons - including slavery and begging.

I have travelled in countries where "tipping" is expected - notably Egypt. The fact that it is expected and seems to accompany poor service or unwanted favours makes it feel like theft. But I went along with it because in that society, not to give tips would have been tantamount to breach of contract. That's the kind of country it was, and those are the breaks.

In the developed world, I'd hope that people could see the strategic advantage of agreeing prices and wages beforehand. Those would be advantages for the customer, employee and proprietor. Basically everyone knows where they stand and successful transactions aren't tainted by feelings of having been conned or of having been patronized.

On edit - I should add that I can only sympathize with people who are caught up in living in such a society. They are damned if they tip and damned if they don't. It's easy to theorize but we all have to live in the world we find ourselves in.

Yes, I try to be culturally sensitive. But I suspect many people in the USA don't realize just how offensive the tipping culture appears to outsiders.

I do and I agree.

The emperor has no clothes (but this is disguised as lack of cultural sensitivity)

The tipping culture actually starts distorting the prices in an economy (like the one in my country) where we have a high influx of tourists. People that work in certain areas do expect and do get offended if you don't tip them, even though they can tell I could have been born in the same hospital they were.

I am more than happy to add some $ IF I WANT.

Take as an example once again my own country (Costa Rica) , the tip is mandatory so it always gets added to the bill (good service or not). Then I married my wonderful American wife who thought me that not leaving a tip in the US (EVEN IF the service was crappy) is some sort of 'declaration of war/don't ever come back to this restaurant...because I will remember how you tipped .......and then I will do 'x' to your food' statement

(I also dispise the notion of haggling, if I like the price I will pay it, I may ask for a discount but there is no way that I am going to start offers at 50% or lower of the tab as its customary in many places of the World)

all this tipping notion is somehow reminding me of the 'retention bonuses' in Wall Street, its (or was?) their culture

Does that mean in restaurants or just in bazaars?

I meant any sort of souvenir store,furniture store, etc where they intentionally have items with a huge markup in the 'understanding?' that the customer is going to bargain the price. sorry I wasn't specific.

On the same 'tipping culture' I was just reading this article

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/12/ma...ping-t.html?hp

1. No mention of how deep into Connecticut this trip is. The $120 fare is only an estimate made by a poster who knows no more than you nor I, only the OP knows the destination. In any case, you will find espeially in this economy and in non-prime time that reputable trips like this into CN can range from $65 to $500.

2. 20% in NY?? Forgetting something for really really great service or whatever, no New Yorker considers 20% to be standard, that is generally for carpertbaggers. New Yorkers generally double the sales tax and have been doing so for many years, so the average tip is currently slightly less than 17.5% give or tae a slight roundup. OTOH, New Yorkers more than people from other places in the US are apt to more often tip higher for great servce, but ALSO tip miserly for horrible service.

Also New Yorkers are more prone to think responsibly when they tip. What is the difference between a $300 meal for three served with a normal house wine, and a identical meal that costs $3300 because it was served with a bottle of Chateau Lafite? None, and most New Yorkers, will tip on the food amount and a token amount toward the wine (the work performed is EXACTLY the same, and should a restaurant worker make and extra $450-600 commission on your bottle of wine???)

3. Back to the actual subject. The vast majority of Livery Car services in the NYC metropolitan area traditionally do corporate work, and their rates are calculated to include a "tip" for the driver as the average Wall Street guy taking his late night car up to Greenwich for example gives a voucher or uses a code and NEVER EVER tips. Nor do the drivers expect one, as generally they make quite good money.

Most reputable Livery Car Services work on a system where the drivers are owner/operators of their own cars and keep +/- 85% of their receipts, kicking 10% or 15% back to the "fleet" they work with for boking services, etc. Even if the driver does NOT own his own car, he rents it on a shift basis, these guys do NOT work for a "wage" and other than their "rent" and gas costs pocket everything they make. Incidentally ALL NYC yellow cabs also work under the same principle. Depending on car/driver/deal/shift a 12 hour shift costs anywhere from $50-100 for Yellow Cabs per 12 hour shift. I do not now what it currently is for non-Medallion cars, but I would imagine that it would be similar.)

4. In short I would say that $5-10 would be okay, $20 ridiculous.

yea god forbid you throw a few extra bucks to someone performing a sh*t job. might spoil your day. how about you toss your tightwad beliefs aside and make someones day. too much to ask?

I think I now know for sure why things are going downhill