Give up and go private?
Sep 28, 2008, 5:35 pm
#31
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netjets ad (for flyertalk types) with their fleet/op stats >
http://www.elite-travelerdigital.com...02/?pg=21&pm=1
my favorite private jet ad >
http://www.elite-travelerdigital.com...04/?pg=61&pm=1
LH private jet ad >
http://www.elite-travelerdigital.com...08/?pg=41&pm=1
another thing you might consider if you end up buying abcxyz >
http://www.elite-travelerdigital.com...6/?pg=101&pm=1
id disagree re LON airports, since commercial flights are into all 5 airports. LHR, LGW, LCY, STN, LTN. (BA into first 3.)
source for my comment on resale market >
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2008/09/...od-the-market/
http://www.elite-travelerdigital.com...02/?pg=21&pm=1
my favorite private jet ad >
http://www.elite-travelerdigital.com...04/?pg=61&pm=1
LH private jet ad >
http://www.elite-travelerdigital.com...08/?pg=41&pm=1
another thing you might consider if you end up buying abcxyz >
http://www.elite-travelerdigital.com...6/?pg=101&pm=1
id disagree re LON airports, since commercial flights are into all 5 airports. LHR, LGW, LCY, STN, LTN. (BA into first 3.)
source for my comment on resale market >
http://blogs.wsj.com/wealth/2008/09/...od-the-market/
Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Sep 28, 2008 at 5:56 pm
Sep 30, 2008, 9:44 pm
#32
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: DEN
Programs: UA1K, F9 Ascent
Posts: 187
A business opportunity?
Our company will charter a jet once or maybe twice a year. But we will only do this when a potential client can join us for the flight. When someone is interested in hiring us we might invite them to visit one of our previous projects. We consider this place a home run and do everything in our power to get them there. If it is in a private jet it is even better. Our success rate so far is better than 50% and it more than makes up for the 15K-25K cost. There is something about the face to face time in a 'fun' environment that can't be beat.
However, when flying to sites for work we can't justify the expense. Our work is often in hard to get to places and we have thoroughly researched ownership and charter options but to no avail. There is no great way to make the numbers work.
However, when flying to sites for work we can't justify the expense. Our work is often in hard to get to places and we have thoroughly researched ownership and charter options but to no avail. There is no great way to make the numbers work.
Sep 30, 2008, 10:08 pm
#33
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,657
The advantages of flying private is of course, the ability to leave when you want to where you want. Here's my take on the + and -
The downside of flying private :
Delays - flying private does not exempt you from the realities of the congested airspace in the United States. Expect to sit in the tarmac (with engines running - got to love your carbon footprint), until you get clearance to take off. Expect to wait in line with other huge jets on the runway as well.
This is particularly apparent when you are flying up and down the east coast.
Weather - ditto on the above. If the airport is closed and there is a storm, you're not going to be able to get in. Also, I find that the big commercial jets (i.e 777) are a lot more comfortable to ride in bad weather, than a smaller, lets say Falcon aircraft. It can get turbulent in small jet....
Cost - It's a good thing I've never seen the bill. Paid for by a 3rd party entity, usually a client. I don't want to see the bill. The guilt would ruin the experience.
Ferry cost I don't know if Netjets does this, but most charter/fractional ownership places will charge you positioning fees, to fly the aircraft you want to use to be at the airport you want to take off from. Add that to the cost.
Catering - Well this isn't really a downside, (it is for me) but if you like to eat, the catering varies widely by airport to airport, ranging from simple to gourmet. The FBO's around the Los Angeles Area provide the best food, IMHO. Netjets basicially lets you order what ever you want, or they can provide you with a suggested menu from the FBO. For the cost, I expect the food & service to be spectacular, and it isn't always the case. A little touch and go, to pun intended.
The positives
Point to point This is the best part of flying private. You get from point A to point B and nothing in between. No connecting flights.
Time savings Check in takes 10 minutes. (the lead passenger shows the operator an ID, that's it) . Usually car service is arranged, and depending on the airport, they can drive right to the aircraft.
The two hour slide My favorite feature is the 2 hour slide (netjets allows you to do this), so lets say you're not sure when you leave, the plane sits at the FBO waiting for you, for the duration of the slide, usually 2 hours. Want to leave between 2am to 4am? . Sure... why not?
Security You won't find stangers and questionable people at the airport
Security is very tight and you won't have to take your shoes off.
Pets If you have dogs, netjets lets you take your pets along. I like that. I'd imagine they would allow cats too, in a carrier.
The company Netjets frequently uses for the Citiation 10 service is www.xojet.com , which can get you from NYC to LAX in about 4 hours 45 minutes, point to point, at Mach 0.91. Costs around $25,000, fuel burn included. If the positives are worth the cost, then by all means.
It's fun though. My favorite part is when the door opens and my feet touch the ground, and YOU HAVE ARRIVED! . This beats a dirty, old jetway any day.
The downside of flying private :
Delays - flying private does not exempt you from the realities of the congested airspace in the United States. Expect to sit in the tarmac (with engines running - got to love your carbon footprint), until you get clearance to take off. Expect to wait in line with other huge jets on the runway as well.
This is particularly apparent when you are flying up and down the east coast.
Weather - ditto on the above. If the airport is closed and there is a storm, you're not going to be able to get in. Also, I find that the big commercial jets (i.e 777) are a lot more comfortable to ride in bad weather, than a smaller, lets say Falcon aircraft. It can get turbulent in small jet....
Cost - It's a good thing I've never seen the bill. Paid for by a 3rd party entity, usually a client. I don't want to see the bill. The guilt would ruin the experience.
Ferry cost I don't know if Netjets does this, but most charter/fractional ownership places will charge you positioning fees, to fly the aircraft you want to use to be at the airport you want to take off from. Add that to the cost.
Catering - Well this isn't really a downside, (it is for me) but if you like to eat, the catering varies widely by airport to airport, ranging from simple to gourmet. The FBO's around the Los Angeles Area provide the best food, IMHO. Netjets basicially lets you order what ever you want, or they can provide you with a suggested menu from the FBO. For the cost, I expect the food & service to be spectacular, and it isn't always the case. A little touch and go, to pun intended.
The positives
Point to point This is the best part of flying private. You get from point A to point B and nothing in between. No connecting flights.
Time savings Check in takes 10 minutes. (the lead passenger shows the operator an ID, that's it) . Usually car service is arranged, and depending on the airport, they can drive right to the aircraft.
The two hour slide My favorite feature is the 2 hour slide (netjets allows you to do this), so lets say you're not sure when you leave, the plane sits at the FBO waiting for you, for the duration of the slide, usually 2 hours. Want to leave between 2am to 4am? . Sure... why not?
Security You won't find stangers and questionable people at the airport
Security is very tight and you won't have to take your shoes off.
Pets If you have dogs, netjets lets you take your pets along. I like that. I'd imagine they would allow cats too, in a carrier.
The company Netjets frequently uses for the Citiation 10 service is www.xojet.com , which can get you from NYC to LAX in about 4 hours 45 minutes, point to point, at Mach 0.91. Costs around $25,000, fuel burn included. If the positives are worth the cost, then by all means.
It's fun though. My favorite part is when the door opens and my feet touch the ground, and YOU HAVE ARRIVED! . This beats a dirty, old jetway any day.
Last edited by meFIRST; Sep 30, 2008 at 10:20 pm
Oct 1, 2008, 9:10 am
#35
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On the other hand, the strong correlation between companies that own jets and companies that do not really serve their stockholder's best interests is very discouraging. Somewhere there is a Treasury study on this relationship that convinced me to sell the shares of any company that enters into a lease or ownership relationship for a company plane.
Oct 1, 2008, 11:06 am
#36
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Oct 1, 2008, 11:16 am
#37
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Delays - flying private does not exempt you from the realities of the congested airspace in the United States. Expect to sit in the tarmac (with engines running - got to love your carbon footprint), until you get clearance to take off. Expect to wait in line with other huge jets on the runway as well.
This is particularly apparent when you are flying up and down the east coast.
This is particularly apparent when you are flying up and down the east coast.
private gives you a lot more options.
Oct 1, 2008, 12:11 pm
#38
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I have had very limited experience with private jets but for me, the main advantage is on the ground at either end. It's pleasant and efficient. That, and the ability to go to many more airports on your schedule, is what it is all about. In the air, it's nothing special unless you are one of the Google boys flying around in your private 757 bedroom.
Oct 1, 2008, 2:19 pm
#39
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Oct 1, 2008, 7:48 pm
#40
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Related:
my friend retired from a flight attendant position with one of the big three legacy carriers after ~15 years.
Chatting on the tennis court recently about this 'n that, she made reference to the past, and was instantly invited to submit her resume by an agent looking to staff business jets with trained cabin crew.
One surprise: some duty regs might LAST FOR TWO WEEKS, meaning, presumably, she would be away from home, in a hotel, and presumably on the clock, for that time.
Does this sound feasible? How many (business)meetings/conferences/vacations involve private jet travel of that length? And if everyone is dumping larger private jets for smaller, what need of--or indeed, room for-- cabin crew can there be?
Chatting on the tennis court recently about this 'n that, she made reference to the past, and was instantly invited to submit her resume by an agent looking to staff business jets with trained cabin crew.
One surprise: some duty regs might LAST FOR TWO WEEKS, meaning, presumably, she would be away from home, in a hotel, and presumably on the clock, for that time.
Does this sound feasible? How many (business)meetings/conferences/vacations involve private jet travel of that length? And if everyone is dumping larger private jets for smaller, what need of--or indeed, room for-- cabin crew can there be?
Oct 1, 2008, 11:18 pm
#41
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,657
Long Runways
A fully fueled G5 or Citation 10 needs room to take off and land. These long runways are typically found at larger airports. And sadly there are limited 'long runways' available for use for general aviation around NYC. This may not be the case everywhere obviously. Of course, if you are flying a light jet, this wouldn't be a problem.
More limitations (that I can think of)
US Customs
Also - another limitation - some airport FBO's don't have US Customs facilities for international arrivals. So you really can't fly from anywhere to anywhere, completely unrestricted. Typically, what the aircraft would do is fly to an international airport first, (land there) then continue on to your final destination.
A client wanted to fly from Milan Linate airport to KHTO (East Hampton Airport) as I recall non stop without refueling and couldn't, because of the reasons above. The runway at HTO airport wasn't long enough for a big Gulfstream and no customs either! , despite the fact that the plane could make the journey.
Jet out
Also, some airports don't support jet aircraft at all. (a few in Vermont as I recall).
The point is its not the utopia of airplane travel, given the cost, you do have some limitations you still have to live with. You can't have it all - as I've pointed out.
Last edited by meFIRST; Oct 1, 2008 at 11:40 pm
Oct 5, 2008, 3:16 pm
#43
Join Date: Jan 2005
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What about the time wasted when all its highly-paid executibes are waiting with TSA lines, getting on and off planes, getting to the airport 2 hours early, and all the other time-wasting trappings of commercial travel? Even with Blackberries, cell phones and airport lounges, being in transit is not the same as being in the office.
With a business-class ticket you're often able to check in very quickly (and/or have your assistant check you in online ahead of time), use the 'express' security line, and board and exit the aircraft first. With ubiquitous wireless and lounges everywhere, there's very little you can't do 'mobile.'
In my opinon, more often than not, private jets are a waste of shareholder money.
Private corporations are another matter - If you're the owner of a private company you can fly how you like. Ditto celebrities - If you're paying the ticket and you want to avoid the paparazzi and autograph hounds then more power to you.
But CEOs of public companies? Hard to justify in my opinion.
Oct 5, 2008, 5:43 pm
#44
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That's true. But your options are limited mainly by the length of the runway depending on your aircraft.
Long Runways
A fully fueled G5 or Citation 10 needs room to take off and land. These long runways are typically found at larger airports. And sadly there are limited 'long runways' available for use for general aviation around NYC. This may not be the case everywhere obviously. Of course, if you are flying a light jet, this wouldn't be a problem.
More limitations (that I can think of)
Long Runways
A fully fueled G5 or Citation 10 needs room to take off and land. These long runways are typically found at larger airports. And sadly there are limited 'long runways' available for use for general aviation around NYC. This may not be the case everywhere obviously. Of course, if you are flying a light jet, this wouldn't be a problem.
More limitations (that I can think of)
Oct 5, 2008, 5:56 pm
#45
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"private jets are a waste of shareholder money" ~ unless maybe you're holding (NYSE:UTX), and EXPECT to get your dividends from those 'wasteful private jets' ?? 
.. rules .. exceptions .. et.al.
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.. rules .. exceptions .. et.al.
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