People are praising classical flying. What is there to praise?

See
http://www.tristar500.net/features/TriStar500.pdf

Tristar 500 standard arrangement is first class seating at 6 abreast and 42 inches pitch.

42 inches pitch is not first class, nor business class. It is premium economy (although 6 abreast is good for premium economy). Looking at other classical planes like 747SP, DC-10, 747-200 et cetera, the picture is the same: 6 abreast 2-2-2 seating, and 42 inches pitch or less.

I cannot see a technical reason why a 747SP should not have been fitted out with 100 flat beds, like Singapore A340-500. But what was the reason that it was not done? There must have been some sort of reason...

You are right in a sense that the seats on older planes really weren't as great as they are now. But there is more to it than the size of one particular seat.

Remember that back in those days planes regularly went out half full. Your particular seat may have been the same size, but it was quite possible to get up in the middle of a long flight, go in back and lie down on a row of empty seats. And in fact that was one of the fringe benefits - passengers were able to, and usually did, spend a lot more time standing up and moving about the cabin.

Many airline's first cabins had lounge areas where passengers could stretch out. These of course were probably some of the earliest things to go - I am sure you have seen pictures of the luxury lounges found in the top level of 747s. At the time there was a lot less paranoia, and it was very common to stand in the galley area chatting with the stewardesses. Planes were often bigger, too - airlines today tend to use smaller planes for the same route - it was common to find wide bodies flying all over the country.

Flying was also just that much more of an event. It was a bigger deal, and people simply didn't expect as much. There was a lot more flair, today's airlines are so staid and business like and stuffy. You got meals on your flights, free entertainment, and a lot more service. You spent much less time sitting on runways and waiting in airports.

So yes, there was a lot more back in the olden days of flying. But todays flights aren't necessarily that much worse - if you are flying up front. The real issue is the people flying in back. Those are the ones who really have seen such a big change.

I remember when Continental DC-10s had a lounge area in COACH !!!

As cloudship points out most airlines offering first class with the tight seat pitch you mention would have had a lounge for relaxing. Even the DC-8s and B707s had a forward lounge that could sit 4 or so passengers.

The 747 used to have 6 rows of 2+2 seating in the front nose section, and sometimes more rows of 2+2+2 in zone B. However the lounge was upstairs and it was all fairly comfortable.

Also remember that airliners couldn't fly very far back in 1969 and the 70's. The average length of a 747 flight would be about 7 hours I'm guessing. Flights from the far east to London would always stop in places like Bombay or Dubai, and sometimes also againin Rome or Frankfurt or Amsterdam before arriving in London. Not much point in having a full flat bed to be woken every few hours for landing.

Once the upstairs lounges began to vanish, first class became more spacious, with the standard becoming 62' pitch (three rows of 2+2 and last row of 2+2+2 in the nose of a 747 and 3 or 4 rows in the forward cabin of a DC-10 or Tristar).

There were some noticeable exceptions to the 4 rows of first class in a 747 such as Pan Am having five rows (2+1, 3 rows of 2+2 and last row 2+2+2) and TWA also put in extra seats, including a single seat in the middle of the F cabin, second row from the back.

However - Pan Am and TWA were leaders in business class, both having a very spacious 2+2+2 configuration on their 747s (which has never been repeated in terms of a standard (non-angled/herringbone) seat).

Regards

lme ff

The first flight of 747-100, in 1970, was Idlewild to Heathrow. And the longhaul flights got longer with the arrival of 747-200 and then 747SP, all still in 1970-s.

To follow up LHR/MEL/Europe FF, there were less ultra long-haul flights until the 747-400 came into service. I remember flying a TG flight from Copenhagen that stopped in Rome and Baghdad en route to Bangkok.

Also, as frequency was much more limited, most travelers arrived in their destinations a day or two before their meetings so there was plenty of time to rest up, whereas today it's off the plane and directly to business.

That said, Philippine Airlines and I believe JL had for various times beds in the upper deck bubble of their 747-100s and 200s. In fact, prior to the jet age, there were often beds in planes, but as the jet engine reduced travel times, the beds were replaced with standard seats.

It was a bigger deal, but I disagree that people expected less ... they
just got more, for a much higher price.

I think as fuel prices continue to rise and frequency once again begins to decrease we'll start to see this sort of thing again - People won't have the option to hop off a plane and head straight to a meeting.

The best part of that brochure is the basis of 50 cents/gallon for fuel costs.

Which should be around $1.50 in today's terms...As against the 2005 price of $0.80.

You don't get a girl in hotpants in the cargo bay anymore.. boo.. devaluation of services etc etc...

When it comes to old fashioned First Class service (Domestic), I thought some of you might appreciate this thread:

TWA FIRST CLASS DEN-JFK 1972 ~ The Good Old Days

Idlewild? In 1970? It was changed to JFK in '63, after he was killed...

Since we are going down memory lane,,,,anyone else remember the Piano Bar on the DC-10 on AMerican

Also there was a time American had 747's in the fleet, and the entire upper deck was a lounge with seats wrapped around the windows and an open area in the middle.....And everyone was dressed the part as flying was "an event"...a place to be ......Today it is all about home comforable you can be with sweatsuits and PJ's...

According to the Observer's Book of Aircraft (William Green, 1969 and 1980 editions) the first 747-200 rolled off the production line in October 1970, just months after the original 100s (from about the 80th airframe onwards). The 747-100 had a range of about 4600 miles with full fuel and regular payload. The -200 series had a range of 6600 miles, supposedly, but with a light payload (and 7080 miles with full fuel and almost zero payload).

I am thinking that the longest flights in the early 80's would have been the LAX to LHRs and similar. Even Qantas (without the SP) had to stop in HNL between Australia and the US. BA's timetable from 1990 still lists flights to NRT as being via ANC (but does show F class now as 62' sleepers on the 747-200 and -400, with the L10 and DC10 still numbering about 20 in their fleet).

I believe the fist non-stops between asia and Europe were by SQ in the 747-300s?

Regards

lme ff