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Old Mar 18, 2007, 3:57 pm
  #16  
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Not so much within the state of Louisiana

Originally Posted by Mr. Roboto
The A students go to Tulane to become senior partners.
The B students go to Tulane and become judges.
The C students go to LSU and work for the A students.
If you plan to stay in Louisiana and practice law here it is better to go to LSU. The reason is that there are more LSU alumni within the state than Tulane and most Tulane students leave the state. There are a few large firms in Texas that recruit at LSU. Vinson and Elkins comes to mind for some reason. I agree that Tulane holds more weight in the rest of the country than LSU, but it all depends on where you want to practice. I want to go to Texas or Florida (ie: I am a golfer and I want to be somewhere that there is warmth).
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Old Mar 18, 2007, 4:10 pm
  #17  
 
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Traveling for law is the pits. As an associate, you'll get to go where no one else wants to go and if you go with the partners you will be literally carrying their bags. Practicing law requires long, long, long hours of brutally boring work for a while.

(Left the practice of law after nine years, securities lawyer for major major law firm, then major international oil and gas company)

Now, my ex has found the greatest gig for travel practicing law. He joined two international bar associations: IBA and PLBA. His specialty is a boring one pension law. But he is going to Spain in May for one meeting (with an add-on to Morrocco) and to Singapore in October. He has been all over the world for these meetings: South Africa, India, New Zealand, Europe. The advantage of these meetings is they are in fun places and there is actually time to enjoy them. And he has actually generated clients from his involvement.

I second everyone else's advice: go to the best law school you can get into and study as hard as you can and get the best grades possible. Then you can get a job with a big important firm and work 16 hours a day, six and a half days a week (you can sleep in on Sundays) and make a lot of money. When you hit 40, after your second divorce, you can ask yourself, what for and keep on. Then when you hit 50, after another divorce, you can ask yourself what for and continue with the big bucks.

My next trip? Italy--Venice and the lakes in May then on to the Central Asia and the stans in August (not the best time). Thinking about Bangkok in November with a couple of scuba dives thrown in.

Never regretted leaving the practice. Never regretted the money I made and the investments I made which give me a lifestyle no one else in my current profession has. I'm not a professional do-gooder.
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Old Mar 18, 2007, 4:18 pm
  #18  
 
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I work for a major firm. Love my practice area. And I'm not stuck doing doc. review. Plus, I have a life. Yes, hours can be long - but it's litigation, so it runs in cycles.

However, I don't travel for work, at least not internationally. But that's a function, really, of my practice area.
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Old Mar 18, 2007, 4:57 pm
  #19  
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All the advice given thus far is sound, so I wont repeat it save for one item that cannot be overstressed: go to the best law school you can get into.
I did not and I regret it.

You need to ask yourself what you want to do with the law.
Do you want to be a lawyer or enter a field just for the opportunity to travel? I say don't bother- join the state department or something else that can give you the travel without all the grief associate with going to law school and being a lawyer.

Another option is to focus on something you are interested in/ have a talent for even if that keeps you stateside. Become an expert in your field, make a lot of money and travel on your own dime. Traveling on an employer's dime is NOT the best gig going. My best travel experiences have had nothing to do with my employer. My most miserable- courtesy of my employer.

I have a job similar to PresRDC's but I do it for a government. I live overseas. I don't work an excessive amount of hours. I travel a LOT. I tavel when and where I want, not when the company tell me to. I like it better that way. My focus in law school was international law and international affairs. That helped more in the infancy of my career than it has recently. Now, I don't think it matters much.

Keep in mind that if your work for a large firm, large enough and sufficiently funded to bankroll your travel you probably won't be seeing the light of day on a regular basis. You probably won't see the inside of a courtroom, either for a while, if that is important.

I repeat- practice where you have an interest. Otherwise life will be nothing but tedium.

Last edited by dme; Mar 18, 2007 at 7:09 pm
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Old Mar 18, 2007, 6:01 pm
  #20  
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Originally Posted by WHBM
Apart from this being a topic that a number of us on FT could give in our sleep I have to say it's a real surprise that at a large aerospace company, of all organisations, they had to get a lawyer to teach a formal class on this topic.
It's internal legal department training, that I took on as a project at the reccomendation of my boss. Being able to tell a 747 from a 737 is not critical for our job, but it is nice to be able to "put a face" to the name of the aircraft on which one can find our product.

Every new hire in the company goes through an intensive two-day course to learn the basics of the product we produce.
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Old Mar 18, 2007, 6:04 pm
  #21  
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Originally Posted by dme
Another option is to focus on something you are interested in/ have a talent for even if that keeps you stateside. Become an expert in your field, make a lot of money and travel on your own dime. Traveling on an employer's dime is NOT the best gig going. My best travel experiences have had nothing to do with my employer. My most miserable- courtesy of my employer.
That is very true. I view travel for work as a means to an end. It allows me to earn the miles I need for the leisure travel I want to do and allows me to earn the airline/hotel status I want to have. It is very nice not to have to pay for miles or status.

It also, for me, satisfies a base urge I have to just go somewhere else from time-to-time.
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Old Mar 18, 2007, 6:58 pm
  #22  
 
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I second (or third, etc.) many of the opinions previously given about getting into the best law school you can as well as getting the best grades. Also, life in a large law firm can be brutal, as well as capricious. Although you may have worked your tail off and done a zillion deals with minimum pitfalls, if your area or department is not strong when your number comes up for partner, you may be looking for another job. Billable hours are a bore, even when you are swimming in them. IMHO (or atleast in my case), an in-house job with certain corporations allows you better work, possibly more international travel, and sometimes fewer, simultaneously competing clients. To get there, however, frequently you need a few years in a well-respected large law firm to establish your credentials and standards of work excellence.

Good luck.

Last edited by BeanTownBoy; Mar 19, 2007 at 11:36 am Reason: typo
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Old Mar 19, 2007, 7:30 am
  #23  
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Originally Posted by BeanTownBoy
IMHO (or atleast in my case), an in-house job with certain corporations allows you better work, possibly more international travel, and sometimes fewer simultaneously competing clients. To get there, however, frequently you need a few years in a well-respected large law firm to establish your credentials and standards of work excellence.

Good luck.
I never traveled when I worked for a law firm, but now that I am in-house I do. It is very, very rare to get an in-house job straight out of law school. You need to plan on 3-5 years in a firm first. I did it after three years and my law school friends, who are now fifth year associates, are starting to get interest.

The nice thing about knowing you want to go in-house while workign for a law firm is that you get to be removed from all the partnership pressure nonsense. Just make your hours target and do good work and you'll be fine -- no need to be involved in the law firm drama and politics.

I actually find that I have more clients now and am pulled in more directions. When you are in a law firm, you are (usually) not physically present in the client's facility and clients know that it costs money to talk to you. When you are in-house, those barriers are gone and people come to you with far more stuff, which, for me, makes each day fun and interesting.

You don't get away from competition, though, because people are competing for executive positions, but it is much less cut throat as being a team player matters far more for your advancement than it did in a law firm (IME).
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Old Mar 19, 2007, 11:52 am
  #24  
 
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After some further thought and consideration, I decided to add an additional post rather than edit my first. In my experience, the most gratifying aspects of international law involve working with people araound the world. I have had the good fortune of getting to a know a number of my non-US counterparts, which in turn has led to being invited into private homes or clubs or an invitation to do things that "locals" do when not at work. Also, many countries outside of the US, Canada and England are not overstuffed with lawyers and the practice of law is still a distinguished profession. Although transactions may be intense, adversaries are treated with courtesy and respect. Also, you may be able to work with true luminaries in certain fields. Grand meals and sightseeing are usually on your own time and nickel--most of the Michelin-starred meals to celebrate a signing or closing come after an intense push, when one really wants to get some shut-eye and comfort food to calm the nervous stomach.
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Old Mar 19, 2007, 11:57 am
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by PresRDC

I actually find that I have more clients now and am pulled in more directions. When you are in a law firm, you are (usually) not physically present in the client's facility and clients know that it costs money to talk to you. When you are in-house, those barriers are gone and people come to you with far more stuff, which, for me, makes each day fun and interesting.
I agree with the above; perhaps it is more that in-house I am better able to prioritize and control my work flow, rather than be subjected to the mandate that "all partners are equal" and having to respond to their work requests likewise.
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Old Mar 19, 2007, 2:46 pm
  #26  
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Originally Posted by BeanTownBoy
After some further thought and consideration, I decided to add an additional post rather than edit my first. In my experience, the most gratifying aspects of international law involve working with people araound the world. I have had the good fortune of getting to a know a number of my non-US counterparts, which in turn has led to being invited into private homes or clubs or an invitation to do things that "locals" do when not at work. Also, many countries outside of the US, Canada and England are not overstuffed with lawyers and the practice of law is still a distinguished profession. Although transactions may be intense, adversaries are treated with courtesy and respect. Also, you may be able to work with true luminaries in certain fields. Grand meals and sightseeing are usually on your own time and nickel--most of the Michelin-starred meals to celebrate a signing or closing come after an intense push, when one really wants to get some shut-eye and comfort food to calm the nervous stomach.
I agree. Working with other lawyers in other countries is very enjoyable. You just have to be patient with the language barriers and recognize that lawyers whose native language is not English are going to be more skeptical of what you draft as a result. It can be challenging to get a contract to say what you need it to say in a way that is accessible to non-native speaker.

I've enjoyed some nice meals as part of my business travel. I am usually travelign with salespeople, who, in our industry, are expected to wine and dine our customers on a regular basis, so we eat well. I've also had several multiweek trips, which allows for weekend exploring. If it is a new city for me, I'll often stay an extra day or two to explore (hotels on my dime, of course).
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Old Mar 19, 2007, 3:32 pm
  #27  
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Originally Posted by manneca
Traveling for law is the pits. As an associate, you'll get to go where no one else wants to go and if you go with the partners you will be literally carrying their bags. Practicing law requires long, long, long hours of brutally boring work for a while....
You beat me to it. Law-related travel is likely to be a big disappointment for you, OP. Except, as noted above, professional conferences can be quite enjoyable. These are usually located in desirable destinations, with lots of free time set aside. The better ones of these are like having a deductible vacation.
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Old May 10, 2007, 7:04 pm
  #28  
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Originally Posted by joejones
if you stay in-state, you could EASILY end up settling with a crappy $50k job at a no-name firm in Shreveport, wondering where you went wrong.
Shreveport is now becoming a booming city.
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Old May 16, 2007, 3:43 pm
  #29  
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As others have said, the amount of travel you do as a lawyer depends on your practice area and the transactions you get involved in.

Taking my example, I'm a 9-year qualified English lawyer working in London in ship finance. Whilst most of the documentation is in our case governed by English law, this is very often the only connection with England and the parties and laws involve a variety of different jurisdictions, e.g. a single transaction could have banks in the US, Germany, Greece and Scandinavia; borrowers in Greece; ships flagged in Panama and the Bahamas (requiring foreign counsel to be instructed in each of these jurisdictions); companies incorporated in Delaware and Liberia; a charterer in Japan and a shipyard in Korea (each requiring foreign counsel in those jurisdictions); etc.

However, given faxes, e-mails and telephone conferencing and the high cost of travelling (lawyers' time plus flights and hotels), it's rare for us to be required to travel - particularly if junior and even for transactions worth hundreds of millions of dollars. People often come to London rather than the other way round.

In my case (although it does depend exactly on what you end up working on), I've only travelled a few times over 9 years and those were all for marketing, seminars or post-transaction celebration dinners.
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