josephstern

In asking around my office, I found a guy who knows a large man who routinely buys two seats. His gripe is that he doesn't get two means. Seems logical. He should also get to check four bags, and get double frequent flyer miles, no?

james318

I think I may have misrepresented the way I was referring to obesity being the last open prejudice. I was talking about things like how people come into a public forum and ask for advice on what to do if stuck next to a fat person. How long would this thread of lasted if someone asked what they would do if they were seated next to a black person? A polish person? A white person? (This is not an attack on the OP at all.)

I agree with all the statements you made above because those make sense. Also what makes sense is how I may have to pay for for a tshirt. Why? Because it takes more material to make. It makes sense.

I digress though. It's one thing if a fatty is spilling over/under the seat and touching you, but quite another if they are encroaching on an inch of space you don't actively need.

A little decency for our common man goes a long way. Don't make me start singing Michael Jackson's "Heal the World", because I will!

Efrem

I understand the problem, but I don't think it's my seatmate's call as to how much of my seat I "actively need" (or need inactively or in any other way). I paid for all of it. I want to be able to use all of it any time I want to, and I don't think that's an unreasonable wish. The possibility that I may at some times choose to squeeze all the way to one side of it ought to be my choice, not imposed on me.

I am willing to be reasonable. I understand that people come in different widths, but don't tell me that I have to do this. The person who wants to spill over into a millimeter of my seat, let alone an inch, is asking a favor, not exercising a right. Approach it that way, and I'm likely to go along. Tell me it's yours because I don't "actively need" it, and we'll have a problem.

drat19

Too true!! That's why, at 6'3" and 285 lbs (down from 320, thanks NutriSystem!), which makes me (even at my previous weight) one of those "big guys" but not morbidly obese, I seldom book an exit row seat anymore unless I have no choice. The extra legroom is not worth having to play shoulder-block for an entire flight with one or two other guys also my size.

SteveinTX

...I have never seen a person so big they could not sit with the arm rests down, but I think I have seen one or two people in the airport walking that looked a little too large to be thinking of flying.

However, what about the other situations?

I've sat next to some undesirable people on full flights that made things miserable:

1. Screaming infants (the entire flight)
2. People who smelled really bad
3. Rowdy Kids who constantly kick the back of your seat
4. People with a stomach problem requiring several emergency trips to the bathroom
5. People who snore really loud

Or how about people who try and bring on luggage that should have clearly been checked in because it is too large and not going to fit without a huge amount of physical pounding. I've seen women bring luggage on board that they could not physically lift into the overhead bin.

Anyway, my point is - why stop with POS? Why not come up with an entire hit list for FA's and GA's to remove from the plane while the rest of us fly in uninterrupted peace?

PTravel

You're still off-base. The problem isn't that the person is overweight, but that he or she is taking up someone else's seat. It's got nothing to do with objecting to a characteristic that has absolutely no impact on another passenger. I have nothing against overweight people -- no aesthetic objection, no moral objection, nothing. I judge individuals by their character and personality, not by their appearance.

However, if you're taking up my seat, I don't care if it's because you're overweight, you're thin and like to spread out, or you have three legs. Buy two seats or don't fly. You're not going to sit in the seat that I paid for.

Why is it another thing? Airline coach seats vary from 17-19 inches wide. One inch is roughly 5% or more of the space that has been allocated to me. I have no idea what you mean by space that I, "don't actively need." I need all the amenities that are provided to me by the airline by virtue of my having purchased a ticket. You're not entitled to usurp any of them. Sometimes, if I only bring a single carry on, I'll put it in the overhead bin so that I don't have to use the underseat storage space of the seat in front of me. Do you think that, because I'm not using it, you have the right to stow your carry on in there? Think again.

A little decency does, indeed, go a long way. What is decent is not imposing on others and not making your problems the problems of strangers. There is nothing decent about expecting strangers to cede their space and comfort to you.

Buy two seats if you need them. Don't impose on strangers.

james318

PTravel,

I recognize your opinions, and understand where you may be coming from. We are all entitled to our opinions, although we may disagree. I don't believe I am too off topic for this particular thread, as the OP did indeed post about "persons of size". If the question was about someone just taking up space, without weight mentioned, I probably would have never posted.

Once Northwest starts giving me double miles, double eqms, and gaurentees that both my left and right cheeks get my choice of elite seating (including bulkhead, and exit row) as well as two first class seats if both halves of me clear for an upgrade, then I might just start buying two seats, even though I don't intrude into anyone's space.

"Heal the world... Make it a better place... For you, and for me and the entire human race..."

timfountain

Oh FFS grow up. For MOST people obesity is a choice (unlike skin color, sexual orientation etc) and you do have a choice. Your first choice as a POS should be not to impinge on anyone else's personal space due to your own size. If you are overweight then you need to take personal responsibility for your predicament, whether that is buying two seats, buying a larger seat (i.e business/first) or saying, you know what, I really can't fit in this already small seat (even for joe average), why don't I take the bus, car or ship, or even better, get on the treadmill and cut out the cookies.

Do not call this prejudice, it is about fairness and equality for all passengers....

- Tim

PTravel

James, you have a legitimate gripe with NW, and I understand your frustration with them. Common sense alone suggests that if a passenger buys two seats, for whatever reason, they should get twice the benefits and, particularly, should be able to ensure that they are adjacent seats.

As I say, your gripe with NW is legitimate and you should definitely pursue it. My understanding is that other carriers have a more rationale policy for pax who buy two seats.

However, the fact that you have a legitimate gripe with NW doesn't mean that it's okay to impose on other passengers. Your problem is with the airline, not with them. Your situation is no different than, for example, the flying family that books the cheapest fares, can't get seats together, and then assumes that the entire cabin will rearrange themselves for the family's seating convenience because, "What am I supposed to do? My 2-year old can't sit by herself."

The family should have booked seats together or, if none were available, taken a different flight. The Customer of Size (I don't like the other acronym) should book two seats, fly F, or not fly. In neither case should a passenger assume that, because the airline fails to adequately address their special needs, that other passengers can be required to do so.

You seem like a nice person so please understand that this is not personally directed. I'll also add that my family runs to being heavy; I'm a bit overweight myself (though I fit fine between the armrests of a coach seat) and, among my cousins, I'm considered "the thin one." Believe me, I have absolutely no prejudice whatsoever when it comes to a person's weight or appearance. However, if I board a plane and someone is occupying my seat, either they're moving or the airline is going to give me an IDB. As I said, this has nothing to do with weight, and everything to do someone else occupying something I paid for. Now, as a practical matter, if you're just an inch or so over the line and the arm rests are down, I'm not going to make a fuss on a short flight. However, if it's a transcon or transoceanic flight, I'm going to get what I paid for. Note, too, that my argument won't be with you -- it will be directed to the airline's representatives as they're the ones that created the problem and will have to deal with it. I am not, however, particularly passive when it comes to imposition -- the situation is going to get resolved, one way or another and it's quite possible that you won't be happy with the resolution.

midwife1021

Hehehe!!

I've seen some rather obese pax fit into their seat and do their best not to overflow into the seats next to them and I've seen skinny, young people rudely trying to hog up as much space as they can. For many people, it seems to be a case of manners rather than just sheer size. Agreed that there is a point where it just isn't practical to try to squeeze oneself into a tiny little airline coach seat, but I would think that someone that big would understand they might have to fork out a little more to get a decent space.

MrZhu

Mr Zhu has seen fire and Mr Zhu has seen rain
Mr Zhu has seen sunny days that Mr Zhu thought would never end
Mr Zhu has seen lonely times when he could not find a friend
But Mr Zhu always thought that he'd see his seat enroached again....

VideoPaul

I watched a CO gate agent at ORD (Ms. Knapp) handle the OP's exact situation with such skill and professionalism I wrote in to CO to make sure she was commended for it.

This ham-and-egger that had to be 450 pounds and well over 6 feet tall got on the plane about half way through the boarding process. I was in 1-E so I got a rel good seat for the floor show. The inevitable happend, other pax complained and the FAs soon caucused in the galley to discuss how to handle a clearly untenable situation.

They went up the jetway and got the redcoat in question who made it clear that the very most important thing was to preserve the dignity of everyone involved. Completely full flight. Nowhere else for the poor guy to go and he EASILY would have taken up almost two Y seats. It became clear that the flight was likely to get delayed if they had to deplane the guy, and the passenger in 1-B offered up his FC seat if it meant on on time departure.

Ms. Knapp got the pax in question up to FC without a lot of fanfare, got him situated, thanked Mr. 1B profusely and assured him he would be taken care of for being so nice and onsiderate of others and we got underway. Notice how her first concern was to treat everyone with dignity and respect. I don't think I could have handled it nearly as well as she did. She should be training people on true customer service. What a gem!

THIS is why Continental is MY airline...

--PP

james318

No offense taken.

I know this is often a fierce debate on this board, and I knew that some people would be able to discuss in a mature fashion. I whole-heartedly agree that if I personally did not fit between the armrests of a coach class seat, I would have a legitimate beef against Northwest if I was required to buy a second ticket and didn't receive anything for it. I am in total agreement with you!

To midwife1021,

I agree 100% with you! I've often had people sit with their legs spread wide apart and encroach into my legspace. I've never once said anything, and perhaps I should, but if they have long legs and truly need the space, let em have it...

And to timfountain,

I think most who have participated in this thread have realized by sense of humour about this topic. I'm sorry if you feel that I should grow up "FFS". I think you've missed my point. If you've read the thread, you'll see I do agree that encroaching on another ones space is not "fair" to them and that I do my best not to, usually to the point of my discomfort even though I don't hang over. My beef about the prejudice was that it's amazing that we can go on public forums and ask such questions as "what do I do if I am stuck next to a fat, disgusting, person who takes two seats?!" (Again, no reference to the OP's post!) A better question would be "What do I do if someone is taking up some of my seat in addition to their own?!"

I am rarely offended. Heck, if a stranger walks up to me while I am eating a salad and says "Hey fatty! No donuts with that salad?" I would probably respond "I ate them on the way here... I couldn't wait!" And laugh. I think I felt compelled to post because I realize there are other FTers who are probably offended by the way obese people are discussed.

The term POS or "person of size" I find to be offensive though, just for the double meaning on POS. I'd rather be called almost any other name in the book.

Now if ya'll excuse me, all this typing is making me hungry.

josephstern

Someone mentioned the screaming kids issue. I'm sorry to say, mine have screamed. I've always tried very hard (and mostly successfully) to keep them quiet, but I'm sure I've angered a few. We had one flight where my 10 month old daughter developed an ear infection that caused nausea in flight . . . My kids are older (and very well behaved on planes) now. But I definitely cut slack to others with kids. I've moved seats a few times so that families can be together.

I don't want to digress into the screaming kid issue, but I do think it's important to note that kids were generally good on flights, and I always had them next to me and my wife (not really to minimize the pain for others, but just to have them next to us). But I think the crucial difference is that if you can't fit into a seat, you know it before you board. Just like families with sick kids know so and shouldn't board. But screaming kids? Hard to know ahead of time . . .

PTravel

Tempting though it may be, I won't take this thread off-topic. Kids on planes and the responsibility of their parents has been discussed many, many, many times here, and is one of the most rancorous of debates. Do a search, and you can see the numerous threads (and insulting and rude posts) that result.

I'll just say this: as with any issue, no one has the right to make their problem the problem of strangers flying with them. That is the definition of imposition, and no one has the right to impose as a matter of entitlement.