davietravel

Have there been any plans by any airline to eventually introduce this on a regular schedule? If not, do you suspect it will happen eventually, or never? Just curious.

I should edit to account for the fact that apparently there IS a China Airlines JFK-TPE nonstop but only in Winter?

izzik

I know of an acquaintance who used to travel EWR-TPE on Eva Airlines. It is not a nonstop but a direct flight.

rkkwan

Both CI and BR are stopping in SEA both ways to JFK and EWR respectively.

Only planes that can do non-stop both ways are the 777-200LR and 340-500, since currently, airlines can't use the Polar routes to reach Taiwan. BR has 772LR on order, so they will probably do TPE-EWR non-stop when they get the planes.

ralfp

Even if PRC overflight is not possible, the 772ER could do it. I think the 346 could also. EWR-HKG direct routing is slightly farther than EWR-TPE without PRC overflight (7009 vs ~6990 nm) and CO does HKG n/s with a 772ER.

The 744combi that BR (still?) uses on the EWR-SEA-TPE route has a slightly shorter range than the 744pax and could not do this n/s. Even if it could, the cargo loads would be terrible.

EDIT:
Check this out for evidence:
http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=e...avy&MAP-STYLE=

ralfp

Getting off the aircraft at 3AM in SEA kinda bites.

rkkwan

It's not about great circle distance. It's about flight time. Only reason why CO/CX can do EWR/JFK-HKG non-stop on 346 or 772 is because they use the Polar Routes. With the headwind in northern Pacific, only the 772LR or 345 can fly non-stop without huge payload penalty.

For a couple of days last year, CO cannot use the Polar Routes (can't remember exact reason, probably solar flare or something with the Russians). They need to fly EWR-SEA-HKG.

Edit: Let me add that before there were Polar Routes, UA could still make ORD-HKG with their 744 (probably with reduced cargo); but that route also flies over Northern China, which is not possible currently for flights to TPE.

edgewood

no- the CI IAH departure stops in SEA

the CI JFK stops in ANC

but they are "direct" flights -and yes 3am stops are dreadful

we fly (noonish departures) from JFK n/s to NRT (JL/AA) and connect to TPE, arriving at night, in time to sleep in a bed, instead of CI/BR early morning arrivals

(and of course UA now lost all our paid-F travel since they will drop the JFK/NRT n/s)

its 2 hours or so longer traveling but much easier to acclimate in TPE

rkkwan

Thanks much for the correction.

ralfp

Oops... However a non-stop is certainly possible TPE-NYC...

Is there a good source on the wind data? At what latitude do the winds become an issue?

In addition to the 3AM stops EWR-SEA, you get the pleasure of customs in SEA on the way back. What fun!

rkkwan

Yes, TPE->NYC is definitely possible with the 346 or 772/3ER. 744 and 343 are probably fine too, especially in winter.

I don't have detailed wind data, but just look at recent CO98/99 flight times.

Today (8/25) CO98 departed gate at HKG 10:29a (don't know exact take-off time, but at HKG, usually just a few minutes of taxiing). It landed at EWR 1:01pm. Flight time about 14.5 hours.

Yesterday (8/24) CO99 took off at EWR 3:33p, arrived gate at HKG 6:59p (don't know exact touch down time, but again, just a few minutes before that). Flight time of close to 15.5 hours, and this is via the Polar Route with virtually no headwind. If it flew over the North Pacific, it'd add about an hour, exceeding its range.

And this is summer time. During winter, even stronger wind in Northern Pacific, and the difference is more pronounced.

Another piece of information is CI11/12 itself.

For 8/24, its ANC-JFK leg is around 11:22a to 9:08p, for flight time of about 5:46. JFK-ANC for the last few days are almost exactly 7:00 in the air. So, just for this part of the trip, there's already a 1:15 difference in flight time, and again, this is summer.

In the winter time, the jetstream windspeed around Japan can be over 100 kt. I have record that on a HKG-NRT flight, our ground speed exceeds 700MPH. Just flying between TPE and NRT in the winter, there can be an 1+ hour difference in flight time.

In fact, just look at CI's timetable. Their TPE-ANC-JFK flight has total scheduled time of 17:05; JFK-ANC-TPE is 19:05 in the winter.