Your Plane gets hi-jacked...
Aug 8, 2006, 12:23 pm
#31
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Originally Posted by tjl
If the hijackers have gotten into the cockpit, or are likely to, then the assumption would have to be a suicide mission.
Aug 8, 2006, 12:59 pm
#32
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Unfortunately easier said than done, when it comes to changing minds. 
It's hard enough to change minds in a more friendly environment like FT. A would-be hijacker's thinking is unlikely to be anywhere as easily influenced.
It's hard enough to change minds in a more friendly environment like FT. A would-be hijacker's thinking is unlikely to be anywhere as easily influenced.However, terrorism works because even one terrorism appeasment has been awarded. That must come to an end if we are to go forward.
Terrorism will only stop when it is ingrained into the mind of every person on the planet that such acts are reprehensible and that their neighbors are likely tear them apart for participation in such actions.
Aug 8, 2006, 1:07 pm
#33
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Originally Posted by tjl
If the hijackers have gotten into the cockpit, or are likely to, then the assumption would have to be a suicide mission.
Wouldn't aircrews have prearranged hijack responses? I.e. pilots would immediately announce "severe turbulence" and turn on the seat belt sign. If the hijackers don't sit down with their seat belts on, they can be bounced around the cabin (by the artificial "turbulence") until they are unconscious or dead; if they do, they cannot control or threaten the passengers, and the "turbulence" can continue until the plane is landing at a remote airfield where police etc. will be waiting.
Wouldn't aircrews have prearranged hijack responses? I.e. pilots would immediately announce "severe turbulence" and turn on the seat belt sign. If the hijackers don't sit down with their seat belts on, they can be bounced around the cabin (by the artificial "turbulence") until they are unconscious or dead; if they do, they cannot control or threaten the passengers, and the "turbulence" can continue until the plane is landing at a remote airfield where police etc. will be waiting.
Aug 8, 2006, 1:15 pm
#34
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Originally Posted by jpatokal
A, of course. As B747-437B said, most all hijacks aren't 9/11-style suicide attacks. And even on the odd chance that this one is, I'm happy to let other people take the risk of tackling the hijackers barehanded. If they succeed but get wounded/killed in the process, I'm better off that they are; if they succeed uninjured, I'm still as well off as they; and if they fail, we all die anyway.
After 9/11, anyone who fails to act deserves to die. I for one, have no intention of going like a lamb to the slaughter.
That's one reason I always carry several well-sharpened pencils with me whenever I fly.
Never again.
Aug 8, 2006, 1:38 pm
#35
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Originally Posted by roadkit
You are, what we used to call in my Marine Corps days, a "Leafeater."
Originally Posted by roadkit
After 9/11, anyone who fails to act deserves to die.
Originally Posted by roadkit
I for one, have no intention of going like a lamb to the slaughter.
That's one reason I always carry several well-sharpened pencils with me whenever I fly.
Never again.
That's one reason I always carry several well-sharpened pencils with me whenever I fly.
Never again.
Aug 8, 2006, 2:23 pm
#36
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Originally Posted by roadkit
You are, what we used to call in my Marine Corps days, a "Leafeater."
After 9/11, anyone who fails to act deserves to die. I for one, have no intention of going like a lamb to the slaughter.
That's one reason I always carry several well-sharpened pencils with me whenever I fly.
Never again.
After 9/11, anyone who fails to act deserves to die. I for one, have no intention of going like a lamb to the slaughter.
That's one reason I always carry several well-sharpened pencils with me whenever I fly.
Never again.
i am currently reading a book called "waking the tiger" in which the author has researched hugely into the way us humans react in massively traumatizing events.
he likens the way many of us respond to the way animals respond in threatening and tramatizing circumstances..
fight or flee
like the impala running from the cheetah, when the impala resigns itself to death it freezes even before it is actually caught in hope that the cheetah will take more mercy with it, drag it to its den for the night and then the impala may have a chance to come out of this frozen state in which to escape while the cheetah is no longer watching it. this frozen state that the impala naturally puts itself in enables it not to feel the pain when the cheetah actually kills it.
it is written in each of our dna the way we will react in such traumatizing situations but i wouldnt condemn someone for not fighting against these people. they certainly dont deserve to die, they only wanted to fly from a to b without any of the hassle of hi-jacking
Aug 8, 2006, 2:25 pm
#37
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Originally Posted by Spiff
However, terrorism works because even one terrorism appeasment has been awarded. That must come to an end if we are to go forward.
Aug 8, 2006, 2:31 pm
#38
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I would try to quietly organize a group to attack at the first opportunity. I don't believe my survival chances would be good either way. I would at least want to have some control of my destiny. Whatever it may be. 
Aug 8, 2006, 2:35 pm
#40
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Originally Posted by tjl
It also works because terrorists hide among civilians (whom they take no responsibility for, unlike governments), usually guaranteeing that civilians get hurt when the terrorist's target responds with military force (or clamps down with heavy handed police tactics in the case of domestic terrorism). The result is that hatred is intensified, which helps terrorists gain support and recruits among civilians.
As long as there is a policy of appeasement, terrorism will continue to have appeal.
Aug 8, 2006, 2:38 pm
#41
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Originally Posted by tjl
It also works because terrorists hide among civilians (whom they take no responsibility for, unlike governments), usually guaranteeing that civilians get hurt when the terrorist's target responds with military force (or clamps down with heavy handed police tactics in the case of domestic terrorism). The result is that hatred is intensified, which helps terrorists gain support and recruits among civilians.
) that are desperate yet largely ineffective in the long-run by way of their counterterrorism & security approaches.
Last edited by GUWonder; Aug 8, 2006 at 2:47 pm
Aug 8, 2006, 2:41 pm
#42
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Originally Posted by escog
...I really don't see hijacking of an airplane really being an option anymore. Nobody is going to believe that the plane is just being hijacked and rerouted to some other country....
As mentioned above, passengers and crew would be in "fight to the death" mode, convinced that they have no other choice. It is almost certain that the pilots would trigger the alarm, and very quickly a fighter pilot would have the plane locked in on radar, ready to pull the trigger if it gets close to a target.
Aug 8, 2006, 2:44 pm
#43
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Originally Posted by B747-437B
Without a doubt (A).
9/11 was an anomaly. A vast majority of passenger aircraft hijacks both pre- and post-9/11 have ended peacefully when all passengers and crew co-operated the hijackers demands and a resolution was reached without any bloodshed.
Vigilante action by passengers who mean well but who are acting purely out of instinct rather than as the result of training or planning simply serves to escalate the situation and is more likely to result in a tragic ending for all concerned.
9/11 was an anomaly. A vast majority of passenger aircraft hijacks both pre- and post-9/11 have ended peacefully when all passengers and crew co-operated the hijackers demands and a resolution was reached without any bloodshed.
Vigilante action by passengers who mean well but who are acting purely out of instinct rather than as the result of training or planning simply serves to escalate the situation and is more likely to result in a tragic ending for all concerned.
And if my memory serves me, there has not been a US Flaged airplane hijacked since that day.
The rules have changed.... as I said earlier; either me or the would be hijacker will die that day.
Aug 8, 2006, 2:44 pm
#44
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What would I do? Hard to predict- maybe panic, maybe freeze, maybe see things very clearly and act.
What I like to think I'd do? Size up the situation, remember what I learned in self-defense classes, try to use the fact that I'm thin, middle-aged and harmless-looking to my advantage, and act.
I'm a mean old broad with a temper who's already outlived a lot of people I loved. If I'm not ready to take a risk in such a situation, what good am I?
What I like to think I'd do? Size up the situation, remember what I learned in self-defense classes, try to use the fact that I'm thin, middle-aged and harmless-looking to my advantage, and act.
I'm a mean old broad with a temper who's already outlived a lot of people I loved. If I'm not ready to take a risk in such a situation, what good am I?
Aug 8, 2006, 2:46 pm
#45
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Originally Posted by dhuey
I think this is right. Hijackers who do not intend to crash the plane would have to be idiots, at least in the USA. Those who do intend to crash the plane are in for a battle royale.
As mentioned above, passengers and crew would be in "fight to the death" mode, convinced that they have no other choice. It is almost certain that the pilots would trigger the alarm, and very quickly a fighter pilot would have the plane locked in on radar, ready to pull the trigger if it gets close to a target.
As mentioned above, passengers and crew would be in "fight to the death" mode, convinced that they have no other choice. It is almost certain that the pilots would trigger the alarm, and very quickly a fighter pilot would have the plane locked in on radar, ready to pull the trigger if it gets close to a target.