beergut

The materials cost a certain amount per inch, it's only more expensive because you're using more to make extra space. A biz class seat costs more to make than Y class, you also take up more space on the plane so pay extra for your ticket.

The Airlines already give people a choice of seat size and charge the relevant amount the same as my furniture store does. Can't fit into a Y seat then pay for biz, I'm having to pay extra to be comfortable in my own home so why should space on an Airliner be any different ?

I have a couple of medical conditions neither of which have any influence on my size. Would you like one of them

flyrights

Transportation is a public conveyance, and is not the same thing as desire for more land.

I commend your honesty, and I believe you when you say you would be willing to pay for an extra seat, if needed... however, not all overweight people share that opinion... and some people, like me, interpret "one seat" to mean "one seat accomodating one human being of any size", rather than "the space between two armrests"... Either way, the government doesn't define what "one seat" means, so I find it difficult to accept that people can be so quick to proclaim that overweight people should pay double. Quite frankly, the verbiage in the law is vague and misleading, at best.

SirDomino

I got it! Us large people should arrive in wheel chairs! Does a wheel chair count as a check in baggage? That wa they won't sell us an additional seat and we'll get all the room we need! WOO HOO!

seoulmanjr

You're joking, right? Here's a primer on disabilities and discrimination laws in the US as it relates to this conversation:

According to the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990, a disability is defined "a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits a major life activity." The determination of whether a particular condition not specifically stated is a disability (obesity) is made on a case by case basis. If a obese person has been classified as disabled so that they can receive all of their due rights and considerations under the ADA, then the airline not only should but is required to accomodate their needs under the law. My understanding is that the airline is not required to furnish additional space free of charge, but is required to make such an option available.

By comparison, the airline needs to provide an aisle chair and assistance onto the plane for a disabled passenger and in some cases is required to provide an adjacent seat to their caretaker, but that adjacent caretaker seat is only free of charge where required by law -- for a pax on a stretcher, in an incubator, with a mental disability unable to respond to safety instructions, and for pax who are both deaf and blind. At concert venues, what you see for wheelchair bound attendees is the minimum required by law the overwhelming majority of the time. So, if an obese person has been classified as disabled under the ADA, they can seek out accessible concert seating and probably have the legal right to purchase an adjacent seat for themselves on an airplane, but nothing requires that this additional space should be provided free of charge for the obese.

Under the Air Carrier Access Act of 1984, airlines are required to accommodate people with disabilities and must provide passage to an individual who has a disability that may affect his or her appearance or involuntary behavior, even if this disability may offend, annoy, or be an inconvenience to crew-members or other passengers. However, free additional space for the obese is not covered within the Act. The Act specifically says that carriers may impose reasonable, nondiscriminatory charges for optional services and space considerations.

It is not illegal or discrimitory for the airlines to charge for extra space as has been ruled upon many times over. If you don't like the law, then write your congressman. If you know an obese pax that needs some consideration from the airlines in terms of making an adjacent seat available for purchase and they're being denied that option, encourage them to be legally declared disabled due to their weight/size so that the airlines can be legally forced to sell them the extra space that they need.

There's a big difference between being disabled and simply fat and uncomfortable on the plane.

peace,
~Ben~

kuroneko

The government doesn't define what "one seat" is because it theoretically shouldn't be necessary to define what is intuitively obvious. Do I need to define what "One chair" is? Do I need to define what what "one person" is? Do I need to define what "one can of pepsi" is? Do I need to define one serving of pizza?

Well, maybe that's a grey area.

Is there a definition of "one serving of pizza"? I think that is the KEY issue. And someone could make a case, probably a very GOOD case, that "one serving" may mean "one slice large enough to satisfy the hunger of the pizza buyer". It certainly ISN'T defined as the area between two cuts. And I think someone could make an argument, a GOOD argument, that "one serving" could mean, "when the pizza hasn't been sliced, you basically have a serving, which could be though of and interpreted by some as one slice".

757-300

Wow, this thread should took an interesting turn, although I should have known that. When I started it, I was more interested in the concept of having the brass balls to use verbal manipulation on another person and to deem yourself worthy of judging THEIR comfort. Since the advice was on the fat acceptance website, it puts it into that context...but as I stated in my second post, should I inform my seatmate that we'll both be more comfortable if I use half his tray table since mine will be filled with my laptop? Obesity is just a flash point for the overall issue of verbal manipulation/rudeness and expecting to get your way because the other person may not be assertive enough to counter you. As a counselor, I spend a lot of time teaching clients to counter these tactics, and I couldn't believe a website promoting "acceptance" of fat (or anything else) would advise its readers to be disrespectful of others in this way.

MoreMilesPlease

Quote:
Originally Posted by LapLap
I used to go out with someone who was very large (he had problems fitting into airline seats). I can say with all confidence that I ate way more than he did - and he was a vegan! Some people really don't have a choice.



Then he was probably eating in secret. Trust me on that one - I have the "small portions in public" thing down to a science.

I am overweight, obese even and I am baffled by this thread. I do not expect the airline to provide an additional space for me for free should I ever need it. I doubt I'll ever get there as I am finally learning how to eat and take care of my body. (BTW - I do fit into a regular seat as well as the RJ seats and do not need a seatbelt expander. I do not need the armrests upright and do not spell over into my seatmates seat. I'm a small person (5'1) who has a lot of padding.)


I have a couple of relatives who do this. They are very obese. They came to visit and ate normal or even small portions in public. Then I found all the Burger King sacks, candy wrappers and gallon ice cream cartons stuffed in the bottom of the trash. Made me realize why they insisted on going out alone every night to rent a video.

flyrights

Honey, please. If people see a TOS violation, they should report it if they are so inclined... Personally, I don't report others, cause it's just not my thing... and I like ALL viewpoints, ALL the time, WITHOUT exception. And we're all greatful you're giving all of us a "warning", cause you think I'm on a crusade. I'd be curious to know if any of the responders to any thread I've started felt like I forced them to respond. I had one thread that I started "locked", not due to anything I wrote, but because other people within the thread were apparently violating the TOS. Now go make another report to the moderator. I'm sorry your threads aren't getting enough attention today.

SirDomino

So how would the airline accomodate this guy?

http://www.starling-fitness.com/wp-c...trickdeuel.jpg

22wingit

Yes, well, but you're a grownup, right? You presumably have the cognitive skills to deal with your disappointment in a socially acceptable manner. Babies don't, no matter how much their parents want them to. (And believe me, their parents want them to.) You also probably have enough manual dexterity to actually USE an airsick bag, instead of throwing up all over everything in a 3 ft. radius, but if you don't, PLEASE, do bring that extra little bag that contains a change of clothes, a big ziploc and a supply of cleaning products. My 3rd grader will even carry it for you.

As to lap babies, I agree -- it shouldn't be legal. A person is a person, no matter how small, and to be safe on a plane, that person needs to be belted into a seat (or seats) or his or her own.

I don't care much for the presence of the hygenically challenged on planes, but if they pay the fare, they have as much right to occupy a seat as I do. Age has nothing to do with it; it behooves all passengers to be as considerate as they are able to be, and if they truly cannot be, it behooves the airline to help their caregivers mitigate the situation insofar as possible.

USA_flyer

uh oh. you've done it now!

gof

In before the lock. This thread is about to self destruct!
We need a "smiley" icon of a dead horse being flogged...

beergut

I'd want a big beer cooler built into the bed, the vibrations would keep me slim and enable me to drink more beer

NNH

Get a grip

1) Air transportation is not a "public conveyance".
It is a service sold by private companies. The airlines can choose to put almost any number of seats in an aircraft, and then charge what they can make. This is why some companies charge a lot of money for a very comfortable ride in a 50-seat 767, and some don't. If you don't like the seat size in WN, go buy a first class seat on AS. Incidentally, please note the way I use italics rather then CAPITAL LETTERS to avoid seeming subliterate.

2) If for some reason the government/FAA chose to reinterpret the law to mean that a seat should be big enough for any size of person, what do you think would happen to ticket prices to compensate for the smaller number of seats on a plane? Well, if you seriously believe that air transportation is a "public service", you probably think the government would subsidise the extra cost through a special tax on discriminatory slim people.

3) Maybe if you spent less time whining about your need for cheap sofa-sized seats, you could go and find a second job to buy the luxury you crave. Just a thought

erik123

On a different note - doesn't FAA regulations require that armrests are down for take-off and landing. At least roger collis of the International Herald Tribune said as much two weeks ago in his travel collumn. Safety trumps sensitivity (though we should all aspire to being sensitive and civil).