hindukid

What I am referring to here is hidden city tickets. Ie I bought tickets on AA for IAH-DFW-IND which were cheaper than DFW-IND by itself. Now we are actually in IAH so I'm not doing hidden city, but I'm trying to think of any industry where you pay more for less. Not more per unit, but just more for the total cost. For instance do you ever see a liter of coke cost more than a 2 liter. Ever buy a two day ticket which cost less than a 1 day at the same place. I suppose there may be a few examples during special sales. However I don't think anybody has tried to argue damages, if you don't come back for the second day of the two day six flags pass.

I was thinking of this question in terms of damages. Normally damages are assessed by putting the non breaching party in the position that they would have been in had the breach not occurred. If I get off the return flight in DFW, I assert that AA has no damages because had I lived up to the contract, they would be in the exact same position. In fact they would be slightly worse had I fulfilled the contract due to extra fuel for my weight, peanuts, soda and possibility of overbooking. Now I understand AA's argument that had I purchased the proper contract (return to DFW), then they would have received more money. I think that the reason AA's calculation is not the normal estimate of damages (expectancy) is that is is basically unheard of to charge more for the exact same services minus a couple benefits.

I guess perhaps one example would be a Pizza special. Say a pizza is normally 10 bucks and pitcher of soda is $2 and tap water is free. On tuesday there is pizza/pitcher special of $9. I come on tuesday and have pizza and water. I refuse to pay. In court are damages 9 or 10? I'd argue that it should be 9, but I could see 10. But that is because you could say I didn't enter into the pizza special contract because I didn't ask for soda. However the AA equivilant is me asking for pizza, soda, and water. Then throwing the soda in the garbage. In that case, I'd say damages are clearly 9.

alvn

I'm only minimally familiar with contract law.

However, every major airline prohibits "hidden-city" ticketing in their Contract of Carriage. If the airlines are seeking damages that are beyond what the law allows, I'm pretty sure that someone would have sued them over it and won by now. Think of all of the huge corporate customers that could save big money if hidden-city ticketing were allowed.

Anyway, if a customer was naive about the terms of the ticket when she bought it (and didn't realize that hidden-city ticketing was a violation of the rules), I'd be sympathetic if the airline tried to punish her for a hidden-city ticket.

However, nearly everyone who reads FlyerTalk knows that hidden-city ticketing is a violation of the rules. When an experienced traveler buys a ticket, she understands the terms of the ticket and the fact that hidden-city ticketing is not allowed. Regardless of whether the rule makes sense to you, you knowingly accepted the rule when you purchased the ticket.

Frankly (and I realize that this might be an unpopular viewpoint), I don't think that the airlines do enough to punish people who use hidden-city ticketing. All too often, if one has a plausible excuse for missing a flight segment, the airlines will overlook it.

adamak

Banks. At least Chase.
I used to get charged a larger fee for writing less than 7 checks, and another fee for writing more than 10 a month. Yeah, that was their logics. I left.

JS

Movie theater -- you could spend more on one 7 PM ticket than a 10 AM plus a noon ticket. Big deal.

whlinder

I've noticed with these new mini-soda cans, the 8oz or whatever ones, that a 12 pack of them often costs more than a 12 pack of regular old-fashioned 12oz cans.

If I want a burger, fries and water, it is usually cheaper for to buy a value meal which comes with soda and just have them put water in the cup than it is to buy the burger and fries separately and ask for a (free) cup of water.

OutOfOffice

Ticketmaster charges a fee to print your tickets on-line even though it is cheaper for them than to mail it to you.

Deimos

One important aspect of the examples mentioned in the previous posts is that there is nothing preventing you from taking the cheaper option. The soda company will not sue you for purchasing the larger cans and only drinking half of them, and you will not be forced to pay extra after doing so. On the other hand, if you purchase a ticket from A to B to C, and only travel B to C, then the airline will try to make you pay more after the trip.

JS

What about my movie example? Could I buy one (or even two) 10 AM tickets and use them for the 7 PM showing? Nope!

pinniped

You know how the drive-in charges a fixed $6 per person or whatever to watch three movies? (Usually two first-run films and one 80's slasher flick or something.)

I think the theater owner ought to set up a checkpoint at the exit. You pay $6 per person for three movies, but if you only wanted to see the first one, you have to pay $800 to get out. Maybe drop the price to $500 if you want to leave after two movies... And, of course, no additional charge to leave after Friday the 13th Part 6 ends at 2AM.

That's how it'd be if airlines ran the drive-in theater.

Well, one other wrinkle: if you're at the drive-in on business (because everybody takes clients to the drive-in ...), it would be $200 per person to get in to begin with, and for the most part they'd still stick you with the same exit fees.

RustyC

I think that at the time of the '77 NYC blackout, Con Edison had a surcharge for blackouts.

Some software companies also have charged for bug fixes.

And before the airlines, railroad pricing had a lot more to do with competition than anything underpinned by actual costs.

But I think the banks have them all beat. They're a declining-cost industry that has saved far more in labor costs then they've spent on new technology, yet rather than passing on some of the savings they've actually steadily raised fees and invented new ones.

pbiflyer

Well, I pay my golf pro to ensure I use less strokes on the golf course. Does that count?

hindukid

JS,

Your movie example is not what I am referring too. I am referring to a price for a product (A) which is lower than the price for (B) but includes everything that B has. The 10 am ticket does not allow you to also see the 7pm show. You are looking at the product as the movie. But a product is more than just the movie. It also includes time, location etc. If the 10 am ticket allowed you to come back at 7pm and watch again than it would be the same thing.

hindukid

Alvn,

I don't know of anybody who has actually been sued for damages by an airlines for hidden city ticketing. This is why I don't think your argument that somebody would have taken them to court by now doesn't apply. In fact I think that airlines haven't taken others to court supports my argument that an airline could not prove damages. Airlines may remove your FF miles, prevent you from purchasing future tickets, and stop you from taking the rest of the segments on your trip. Perhaps they may even ask you to pay the additional fare and see if you comply. However I have never heard of anybody being taken to court for hidden city tickets, nor I have heard of an airline adding additional charges to your credit card.


Another example I thought of is early bird parking.

JS

Aha! (emphasis added)

That is exactly the same thing as an airline ticket, where the time and location are very, very important to both the passenger as well as the determination of the fare to charge.

hindukid

Yeah its the same thing that airlines do. Certainly no doubt about that. However I don't think its that unusual nor inappropriate. What I was commenting about more was when one ticket can include the exact same flights as another ticket, yet cost less. Not just same routes and cities, but exact same flights. It happens but with hidden city tickets and when RT is less than one way.