Football Fan

"I'm going to feel your kokonutz now"...


Sorry for a less than serious post...

hbyerly

LOL. Actually, it was the perfect point in the discussion for a little humor....

And when the screener says : "I'm going to feel your kokonutz now"... the only fitting response is: "Oh, goodie. Then I'll feel yours right back!"

kokonutz

I've actually had fantasies like that...

But seriously, it does suck that one has to warn one's teenage daughters to beware of and how to respond to the TSA letches...

Jenbel

Ok, I work on airports, and usually on a temporary visitors pass. Under UK regs, I get a thorough search everytime I pass through staff search, and that includes a feel of my breast/bra. But it is always done by female security personnel (male staff are not allowed to do it) and they are generally brisk and either impersonel or friendly. They know I know the drill (very good one-legged stance by now!), I know they know the drill, and its no big deal. But thats when I'm working, I know whats going to happen in advance, and the staff attitudes means its no big deal. I'm also usually being escorted by airport staff I'm working with, and I'm in the position of being able to complain loudly to them if ever I thought it was inappropriate/unprofessional. So i have quite a lot of control over the situation.

As a passenger, I've had close pat-downs occasionally. I would refuse on general principle for it to be done by a man - sorry, but to do a proper check it has to be pretty close, and its not necessary when there should be both sexes present on a check-point. And yes, the first time my bra underwire was checked I was a bit shocked and suprised

For me, a lot of it is down to staff attitudes. If its no big deal for the staff, its no big deal for me. If they are going to make sleazy comments, or be less than professional, then I will kick up a fuss. But it is odd, but not surprising how men aren't being checked quite so thoroughly as women during body searches

Pat89339

How did I miss this announcement? The only way I can make it through one of these invasive searches is to have some kind of control over the situation by making sure they are using the backs of their hands.

The first time I was groped by a TSA screener I was left in a total state of shock. I felt violated. I filed a complaint with TSA and wrote letters to my representatives, all of which served no purpose whatsoever. It was on Flyertalk that I found out they were supposed to use the sides or backs of their hands only. At least that gave me a modicum of control over the situation. Now I have none again?

I ask my fellow FTers, what are we supposed to do when faced with this situation now? Several people have mentioned carrying around copies of the 4th amendment, but what purpose does that serve? Will it stop them from groping my breasts? I won't wear an underwire bra. Unfortunately, because I have a metal plate in my leg I get sent to secondary about 50% of the time. It is a given that you get the breast groping if you are sent to secondary now?

WT+

I understand some people feeling uncomfortable about being touched and totally agree about the rudeness of some security staff (esp. in USA and Asia) but does anyone really think that pat downs are done to get a cheap sexual thrill? It's not like someone has just come up to you and said 'I wanna feel your breasts' - you know why they are doing it, they are in uniform and there are plenty of people around.

What annoys me when going through security are the people who are obviously frequent travellers and still hold up the lines by not getting themselves ready - walking through with their mobile phones etc and then having to go back and retry. Or perhaps they are doing it in order to get pulled aside for a pat down?

WillTravel

I was foolish enough to wear an underwire bra through the checkpoint, but the secondary screening was not a big deal.

But for the future, if I should happen to wear this again, why couldn't I ask to remove my bra and send it through the X-ray machine? Has anyone done that?

GradGirl

Yes. When a man goes out of his way, breaking the rules his employer has put in writing, to try to get his hands on my breasts and the breasts of the teenage girls behind me in line, when he's ignored the grandmothers just in front of us who got female screeners, I'd say that's about his cheap sexual thrill.

The DHS and TSA are responsible for putting women in this vulnerable situation in the first place, even if those perverts taking advantage of it are doing so against the rules. It should be common sense and widely known that touching private parts is forbidden. If touching breasts were forbidden as it ought to be, then women wouldn't have to fear being sexually abused at a checkpoint.

Globaliser

Well, this is the key to it really, isn't it? When it's done in an utterly professional way, nobody could possibly have any complaints. But it's appalling that men are allowed to do pat downs of women pax - I was shocked to read that on this thread.

Jenbel

IIRC, the same sex pat downs in the UK are probably as much to protect the staff from accusations of sexual assault (because our airports are generally privatised, the security staff are airport employees and so a complaint could be filed with the police), as to preserve modesty. But even given my general sangfroid, I would not like a bloke to give me a security check. I've waited 20mins at one staff search for a woman to arrive as they didn't have one present, and no-one I was with suggested one of the blokes do it.

usoftie

Here's a tip I learned in Denver. With the new rules from the last month or so, when they say, "I recommend you take off your shoes", what they really mean is, "if you don't take off your shoes, even if you don't alarm the machine, I am going to give you a pat down, make you take off your shoes and run your shoes and anything in your pockets through the x-ray". Unfortunately, the practicality of this resulted in my wallet (stupidly in my pocket) with $200 in cash being separated from my eyeline for about 2 minutes while he went down the line to run it through the machine. It was either give up sight of my wallet or my luggage. And this was after having the gruff young man (who was probably gruff because I was obviously mad at this) feeling all around my torso (getting more intimate than my first girlfriend).

WT+

I fly many times a year and have never seen a situation where a male searches a female or a female a male - even with a wand. I suppose it could happen in exceptional circumstances. However, unless it is carried out in private I am certain that you are quite safe and it cannot be in any way considered sexual abuse. By not objecting you have allowed the person to pat you down anyhow!.

Sounds more like you are the one getting the cheap thrill from being touched and then protesting about it.

Japhydog

Well, you're new here (welcome to FlyerTalk) so I'll give you something of a break. Despite your completely anecdotal observed 'evidence,' if you read the entirety of this thread, the fact is that male TSA agents do indeed grope female passengers. You may also want to take a look at the Travel Safety and Security forum for more incidents.

Since you're apparently from the EU, you may not realize that in the US we have the Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution, which is supposed to protect us from unreasonable searches of our persons. The TSA relies on a legal theory called 'implied consent' in order to get around the Fourth Amendment. In reality, 'implied consent' is a total fiction, because whatever consent is present is coerced by threats of fines and/or banishment from flying. Unwanted touching of genitals or breasts is sexual assault. People don't object because: (1) If one tries to object to being sexually assaulted one may be barred from flying and fined for 'disrupting the screening process;' and/or (2) they are frightened of the government agents and think they have to do whatever the agents say.

Finally, at FlyerTalk one doesn't normally accuse another member of getting a thrill from being sexually assaulted.

debua1k

Am I in the minority in that I object to even a female groping my breasts? I could care less if they are getting a cheap thrill. I do care that I feel violated when my nipples are played with, without my implicit consent, in full public view. The last groper did not even ask if she could touch me. She was wanding one second and groping the next. I did not even get a chance to tell her that I would like to be groped in private.

I have yet to be groped by a male TSA agent, however, the last time that my luggage was searched, it was done by a female with a male observing. I asked that it be done in private as there were some things in there that I would not want children to see.

GradGirl

I certainly hope you are not in the minority. I also feel violated by any stranger grabbing my breasts, whether it is part of some charade of screening or not. A stranger touching my breasts is crossing the line of decency, and that's my final word on the matter.

WT+, I did not allow a male screener to touch me. I insisted on a female screener. And I'm sure the readers of FT, who are almost universally respectful even in disagreement, consider your spewing filth here as evidence of your low character. I'm sure there's another bulletin board somewhere else more suited to your level.