megan

After getting the grope a few times, I've stopped wearing underwired bras when travelling. For overnight flights, I usually wear a sports bra and more comfortable clothes (ie, not fashionable). My stops for hand-searches have gone way down since I started doing this.

hbyerly

So here's my question: What will you do? We've gotten some good advice about asking for a private screening, but that actually makes me a little more nervous, as there are less witnesses. Private area or not, I don't want to be touched on the breast. I don't mind the "wanding" or a visual inspection, but I do not want to be touched. And if I politely refuse, will they offer alternatives, or I will be denied access to my flight?

And here's something else to think about: what would you advise your daughter to do? I have a sixteen year-old who travels on her own fairly frequently, usually to visit her dad. Last year, when she was 15, my rather well-endowed kid was told by a TSA agent in Miami to remove her sweater, and as she did the agent smirked and said "Too bad I'm out of dollar bills."

Unfortunately, she didn't tell me about the incident until it long after it happened, but I still would like to go find that guy and hurt him very badly.

So what will you tell your teenage daughters to do when a stranger in a uniform tells her "I'm going to feel your breasts now"?

AinA

Well, my first response to this thread was light hearted and my husband came home just as I sent it. He was not aware of the new changes. He and I are flying together the end of the week and he is adamant that if they pull me for secondary screening they are not touching my body anywhere near my breasts. I joked about the good luck for the between part because that is not a possibility as I am rather generously endowed.

I cannot believe that one screener said that to your daughter about the dollars, I would have personally clocked the *******. Just the thought of something like that brings tears of rage to my eyes.

We do have a teenage daughter and I was threatened by TSA last November that I would not be allowed to fly because I insisted that any instructions to her be directed through me. I repeatedly stated she was my minor child and they were to direct their instructions to me.

The TSA agent responded by shouting instructions to my child over my objections and repeatedly telling me I was not flying that day because I was interfering with screening of passengers. We were forced to wait for the supervisor's supervisor (as it was the shift supervisor that was shouting at my child.) Eventually we were allowed to fly but only made our flight because it was delayed. I followed it up with a formal complaint at the national level, fat lot of good that probably did.

The unfortunate thing, TSA makes it very clear that if you do not comply with their demands, you will not fly. Period. They can be wrong but that does not matter, you will not fly. Missing a flight isn't going to kill me, but I am afraid if I gripe too much I will be put on a list to be scrutinized everytime I fly.

We are flying with all of our children over Thanksgiving and then again at Christmas and if they select my teenage daughter for secondary screening she will not fly. They will not touch my child's breasts. I have no idea what we will do if it happens on the way home, but I will not allow it under any circumstances.

At this point I do not know what I am going to do when I get pegged for secondary screening again.

This is really tragic and it should not be allowed to become common place. The general public has no clue this is happening.

Japhydog

Alison and hbyerly,

Many of us on FlyerTalk are as concerned as you are about the TSA's accelerating invasions into our civil liberties. You may want to check out the Travel Safety and Security Forum -- there is a great deal of information there relating to your posts, and also some heated debate.

In short, Alison (regarding your question re the 4th Amendment), there was a series of Supreme Court opinions in the 70s which seem to indicate that flying is a 'privilege', not a right. Additionally, the TSA is relying on the 'implied consent' doctrine, by which I mean that when you get in line for security and submit to the WTMD, you are giving your 'implied consent' to ANY search the TSA wants to make of your person and your things. Scary, isn't it?

JennyElf

Perhaps I've just been lucky, but I haven't managed to set off the metal detector and selected for secondary for a few years now regardless of what I am wearing. I normally wear a standard bra with underwires, a pair of pants with a zipper, sometimes a top with a zipper, glasses and a wristwatch. It's really sad that we have to worry about what bra we should wear or if to wear one at all in order to avoid being groped.

I agree though, I'd rather just show, I do not want to be touched. Makes me wonder though, what about padded bras? There are some that are liquid filled. They don't feel like flesh when prodded. Do you think the TSA would insist on investigating your bra further (ie making you take it off) if you were wearing a liquid padded bra?

HeHateY

Another news article, this time from a San Diego TV station:

"Bob Kapp, customer service manager for the TSA in Denver, said that to conduct a thorough pat-down search of women, 'it does require going beneath, between and above the breasts.'

Kapp said a few people have been a little bit alarmed by the procedure. But he called it 'a sign of the times' that is probably here to stay."

http://www.10news.com/news/3799783/detail.html

(Can anyone get us Bob Kapp's contact info?)

So ladies, because the security staff at Moscow-Domededovo were open to bribes (cuz that's really how those ladies got stuff past security there and on to their flights), you are going to be sexually molested when you dare board a jetairliner!

Oh, and here are the comments over on the FARK.com board (possible NSFW): http://forums.fark.com/cgi/fark/comm...IDLink=1163232

Jenniferpa

To date, I've also been lucky, but I've been wondering what might happen if I was patted down, as I've had reconstructive surgery, and there is no way both breasts are alike, nor do they feel that way. Titanium doesn't set off the detector, right? 'Cause I've got pellets in the other breast, and more than when I last flew.

HeHateY

As the basis of my above claims regarding Russian airport security, I offer the following:

A passenger can pay an airport staffer as little as 500 rubles to be whisked past security checks or sent through staff-only corridors, he said.

"A 'client' just needs to ask an airport employee, who will then take him by hand and lead him to the airplane," he said. "There are many loopholes, especially at night. The easiest way is to go through 'staff-only.' The fee is 200 rubles [$6.80]," he said.

For 100 rubles ($3.40), a bus driver can be hired to take a passenger directly to the plane.

http://www.sptimes.ru/archive/times/...op/t_13586.htm

So this is why Bob Kapp and his underlings at DEN need to feel-up women?

fierce_kali

I really have no idea about how I would hide ANYTHING in my bra. Seriously. Bras fit snugly and unless they are heavily padded, what you see through a shirt is exactly what is underneath. The only thing I can even consider hiding in my bra if I was trying to get something banned through is maybe a teeny knife in the back strap (NOT the front- ouch) or maybe a tiny amount of drugs. Besides, anything metal would set off the detector anyway. The front cups are curved and soft, so how anything can be hidden there that requires a pat-down to find is beyond me. Think about how baggy men's boxers are, though, as well as how much more space men's pants have than a woman's bra. I wouldn't be opposed to this policy so much as it's just ridiculous that anything dangerous could be smuggled in via bra and not by a man's boxers. Thank you for your offer to also be "searched", though

Analise

First off, I would have reported that agent immediately. Such sarcasm is unwarranted but said to a minor, it's downright FILTH and PORNOGRAPHIC.

You bring up a good point about exposure of a minor. I would have to think about that. I wouldn't want my daughter to have to go through that at all so my husband and I might discuss flying with her and see if she really thought it were worth it. We would tell her exactly what could happen and see what her thoughts were.

USCGamecock

I think that type of behavior by the TSA is downright criminal.

dchristiva

I find this difficult to believe, even for the TSA. Clearly this goes beyond the boundaries of decency and an agent would be risking his job by making such a comment. Clearly the daughter knew the statement was inappropriate, so why didn't she bring it to someone's attention, or at least get the agent's name so he could be disciplined later?

This seems too outrageous to be true, but, based on stories posted here, I guess the TSA really gets away with whatever it wants.

Analise

I'm sure you do; however, I don't.

Fraser

I'm surprised someone else hasn't brought this up but why was a man searching a her?

If these guys and girls in TSA Ivory Towers feel they need to send down directives to start rifling through ladies underwear I'd like to think the ground soldiers would at least do it professionally and with a sense of courtesy

debua1k

He probably was the one at the front of the line, directing people to remove their laptops, shoes, belts, etc...