And we know they can. The "Train to the Plane" on the A line was a ride from Manhattan to JFK. Granted, you had to then take the bus, but a free tram from long-term parking/the subway station could have replaced that. Not this super-expensive and $5 additional ride.

d

Analise:

I think your complaint about escalators is
not with the AirTrain:

http://www.mta.nyc.ny.us/mta/airtrain.htm

There are elevators on most or all LIRR
platforms that can take you up to the bridge
to AirTrain.




[This message has been edited by squid (edited Dec 24, 2003).]

Not at Jamaica....I'm there quite a bit---it's a mess over there. There are elevators only at a few LIRR stations by the way.

I was changing trains at Jamaica Station last week, and had a few minutes to explore the Airtrain connection. At the eastern end of every LIRR platform there is an elevator that will take you from the LIRR platform to the overpass that connects to Airtrain. No schlepping up or down stairs, narrow or otherwise. And the elevator was actually working on the day I was there.

Well that's a different story. When I was there, it was not working and I was on track 2. Glad to hear that it was working for you.

squid posted Dec 29, 2003 04:56 PM in the NYC airline forum on FlyerTalk (wouldn't it be better, for future FlyerTalkers, while searching for informations about the AirTrain at JFK, if these posts would be moved to the Airport forum?)

What about the important stuff?

what is the SPOTTING like on the terminal loop? Worth going a few hours early and riding around for a while?

Well, I tried the AirTrain over the holiday weekend and was very satisfied. Total travel time from the vestibule of the LIRR train at Jamaica to Terminal 7 was 22 minutes, and from the gate area at Terminal 7 to Jamaica station, 15 minutes. As I noted earlier, these travel times actually make Jamaica station more convenient to the central terminal area than the long-term parking lot used to be.

The transfer at Jamaica is quite painless. The only change of elevation is from the LIRR platform to the station mezzanine and, as has been observed, all LIRR platforms have elevators so even my earlier concession that the single set of stairs may be a problem for some is not valid. I'd certainly much rather transfer from AirTrain to the LIRR at Jamaica than cart my luggage around an airport parking lot! The only bad thing I noticed was there's no waiting area for people who have some time to kill before their LIRR train comes. There were a number of people sitting on the floor. Hopefully they'll address this problem and at least put in a bench. (If nothing else it cheapens the experience of using the shiny new AirTrain station.)

For those going to Manhattan the AirTrain, while far from an ideal solution, makes JFK the best of the three area airports for transportation - certainly better than the rail connection at EWR which, for some reason, many people apparently do consider a one-seat ride to Manhattan. (Why? Because the station happens to be called Newark Airport? You still have to transfer to an airport people-mover and spend just as much time on it as on AirTrain JFK from Jamaica.) LIRR runs twice as many trains from Jamaica to Manhattan on any given day as NJT does from EWR, and has much more even scheduling too. LIRR has only one gap in service that matches those ugly 50-minute waits you see at EWR on the weekend: No trains between 3:08 AM and 4:25 AM. (Apologies to everyone coming in on those ultra-popular 2:30 AM flight arrivals.)

IMO the AirTrain has caused JFK to go from worst to first for metro NY travelers. I'll never want to take a flight from LGA again!

Now that was quite a review. Thank you for sharing that. I've always been glued to flying in and out of LGA but I might just try a JFK experience. If these elevators are working like you and others have said, well this sounds certainly a lot better than the NJ Trains to the EWR train stop. Do you feel safe in the elevators? I would love to hear from a woman travelling alone so I can see what her experience is like. I'm still hesitant to go to Jamaica alone with luggage and a laptop.

I disagree. The mileage between EWR Aitrain NJT/Amtrak Station and the Terminals is way shorter in mileage than JFK Airtrain to Jamaica. Now the JFK airtrain may be faster than EWR Airtrain so depending on which Terminal you are going to at JFK or EWR your times may vary.

However, the one thing that EWR Airtrain gives you is direct terminal access. All the stops are INSIDE each terminal. JFK's train have outside terminals or shared terminals. I think only Terminal 4 has a true inside terminal at JFK.

Now I agree that LIRR runs more frequent trains than NJT and that is a valid point. But, it only take anywhere from 7-10 minutes from EWR airtrain to get to Term C.

To say that JFK is the BEST connection to NYC is really depending on time of day; ariline, etc. I can't see how at peak times that JFK Airtrain has a HUGE advantage over EWR Airtrain.

- HobokenFlyer

I was curious about this so I ran the numbers. Let's take a look at the Monday schedule:

LIRR
--------------
AirTrain transit time between Jamaica and the nearest airport terminal (according to the Port Authority): 8 minutes
Mean travel time Jamaica -> NYP 19 minutes 42 seconds
(range: 17-24 minutes; median: 19 minutes; standard deviation 1 minute 30 seconds; n=143)

NJ Transit
--------------
AirTrain transit time between EWR train station and the nearest airport terminal (according to the Port Authority): 7 minutes
Mean travel time EWR (train station) -> NYP 27 minutes 46 seconds
(range: 23-42 minutes; median: 27 minutes; standard deviation 3 minutes 18 seconds; n=70)

Mean gap between trains, morning rush hour
(beginning with the first train after 6 AM; ending with the last train before 10 AM)
LIRR: 4 minutes 13 seconds
(range: 1-14 minutes; median: 3 minutes; standard deviation: 2 minutes 17 seconds; n=50)
NJT: 16 minutes 9 seconds
(range: 5-27 minutes; median: 16 minutes; standard deviation: 6 minutes 47 seconds; n=13)

Mean gap between trains, non-rush hours excluding late nights
(beginning with the last rush-hour train; ending with the last train before midnight)
LIRR: 11 minutes 28 seconds
(range: 2-23 minutes; median: 11 minutes; standard deviation: 5 minutes 34 seconds; n=74)
NJT: 17 minutes 43 seconds
(range: 5-50 minutes; median: 17 minutes; standard deviation: 9 minutes 48 seconds; n=48)

LIRR offers more trains, shorter trip times, and less variance (and off-peak fares). Not only are the airport trains faster at JFK, but so are the commuter trains they connect to. AirTrain JFK is objectively more convenient from Manhattan than AirTrain Newark.

I can't speak for the reliability of the elevators at Jamaica, but I can say I saw people using them when I was there. I'm not a woman traveling alone but I would have no qualms about taking the elevator during the day. (Jamaica is a busy station and I believe the elevators are glass-walled so you can see some of what's going on.) The neighborhood may be seedy but is also very busy and the area around the LIRR station entrance is safe during daylight hours. Also, if you arrive on the LIRR and transfer to AirTrain you don't even need to look at the street. If you have valuable things with you, take the same precautions you would in Manhattan - be on your guard and carry yourself with the confidence, poise, and velocity of a typical NY commuter who does this sort of thing every day.



[This message has been edited by Factotum (edited Jan 01, 2004).]

Thanks for all the useful information.

I am a bit surprised that all the discussion seems to be focussed on the LIRR. Is the subway a bad option? I am arriving at JFK tomorrow evening and was planning to use AirTrain+E to get to my hotel (Waldorf, near Grand Central). Is that a bad idea?

Is the subway a bad option?

Already in the past, I mostly took the subway - but not for time saving (waiting for the bus connecting JFK to the subway station, than the bus stopping at several terminals and parking lots, then waiting again for the next subway, and a long ride into Manhattan stopping every other minute) - but to get the local feeling right away when back in my (beloved) New York - and reading the same-day NewYork Times.

I fully understand that many people (Gisela etc) don't like to have to carry the luggage again and again, and some (again Gisela) also don't feel very safe on the subway (I never, so far, had any problem).

If you are travelling during the day and don't have a problem carrying your luggage in stairwells, you really should be fine. The Sutphin Ave station is seedy; just be aware of that. It is more convenient to take the E to the Waldorf as you just take it to the first stop in Manhattan (Lexington Ave) and you will find yourself at Lex and 53rd Street---a short walk to the Waldorf. Do sit toward the front of the train as the back of the train lets you off a block further away at 3rd Ave.