Does anyone recall what seat pitches used to be in coach class before 1980, that is before de-regulation, before non-refundable tickets, before all those different booking class letters, before male flight attendants?

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If I recall, there were just two classes back then, F for first and Y for coach. OK there was also K for economy on some flights and the rear cabin was mixed Y and K. On some flights (including United) the main difference at one time between Y and K was that no meals were served for K passengers, the latter could sometimes buy a box lunch to carry on board.

AllanJ:

Seat pitches in Y were more generous then. I don't have figures but I would guess about 36" was typical. Western Airlines (remember them?) used to have, however, "First class legroom in coach", and when I flew with them from SFO to YVR in a Boeing 720B (remember those, too?) it was really noticeable, probably about 43".

But back in the old big prop plane days pitches were even better. The last of those I flew in was a Convair 580 in 1988, Burbank to San Jose, operating for American Eagle, and it was quite a stretch to reach the tray table (and there were little curtains for the windows - in Y!)

Regarding male flight attendants, British Airways long-haul, and their BOAC predecessor, have always had (notably senior) stewards. Apparently they used to transfer from the old Cunard ocean liners when they got fed up with life afloat. And on the very first British aircraft to have cabin attendants, in the 1920s, it was men as well, page boys supplied by the Savoy Hotel. You will notice I am not saying "anyone remember them"!!

Since it was always adequate, nobody ever made a big deal about it. But some quick research confirms that a typical pitch was about 34-35 inches in Y (roughly comparable to MRTC on AA).

PSA advertised 36-37 inch pitch on its one-class MD-80s in the early 1980s.

My guess is that a couple rows were added to most jetliners in the early to mid 1980s to try to squeeze a few more L and N fares on popular routes.

But by and large, most major airlines have flown about 1/3 of their seats empty for the last 20 years, as load factors tend to hover around 67%.

In fact, even in these days of higher-than-average load factors, Southwest will probably end 2003 with a load factor of about 67%. jetBlue is the rare exception, filling about 85% of its seats on average. But since they don't overbook, they rarely fill every seat on the plane, while most airlines do send a measurable percentage of their flights out with 99%+ load factors.

So has the trend toward tighter seating really helped the industry? Probably not. The extra row or two of seats are sold at the lowest fares, providing some revenue but not bodacious profits.

Southwest trumpets their 32.5 inch pitch (better than the typical 31 inch pitch industry standard and found on their 737-700s and 737-200s) on their website. Based on their historical load factors (and their MO of very frequent flights), they could probably remove another row or two and not feel any financial pain. With B6 removing a row from their planes, I expect WN to do just that in the next year or two.

That's because they don't have anything smaller than a 737. Why do you think they are considering a new purchase? One of the ramifications of adding smaller and smaller cities is a gradually decreasing load factor, accompanying gradually decreasing profits.

That's because they're stupid. One of these days they will start overbooking when their idiotic policy hits them in the pocketbook.

Try to buy a ticket from JFK to MSY for tomorrow. Oops, sorry, we're all sold out!

Try to buy a ticket from JFK to MSY for Saturday. Oops, sorry, we're all sold out!

You'll just have to wait until Sunday.

All airlines do that, including Southwest. Peak flights are full, and off-peak flights aren't. No big deal.

JetBlue is removing a row because they can't get off the ground with a full transcon flight. WN does not have that problem -- they'll just stop along the way rather than going non-stop. There's nothing wrong with either approach.

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"Yippie-kay-yay, Mr. Falcon!" -- John McClane, Die Hard II As Seen on TV

About thirty years ago, Western "The ONLY way to fly" Airlines ran television ads with a musical jingle that ran something like "you get two feet for your two legs on Western Airlines."

It really saddens me the mess that DL has made of the WA operations in SLC, the former main hub of WA. WA used to be IMHO, the creme de la creme of airlines.