So, I essentially agree wtih the comments made by andrzej -- thanks for making the arguments for me. I think it's simply stupid for Russia to require visas for Western tourists; this policy hurts the country more than it helps. Other countires realize that it benefits them more not to have a visa requirement (or a simple visa procedure) for US tourists (e.g., Israel, Czech Republic, Mexico) even though the US has a visa requirement for their own citizens... As I said, yet another stupid remnant of Soviet backwardness in Russian policies.

Or maybe because Russia has enough pride not to prostrate, and/or prostitute, itself to Mammon.

FWIW, a friend flies his Russian wife through Germany to Canada because U.S. transit procedures are a hassle so it swngs both ways.

To get away from opinions and back to facts and the subject of this thread...

Have your hotel issue an invitation and go to the Russian embassy in person if you can and the whole process is fast and easy.

I had a booking with Sheraton so they faxed me the invitation and forms I needed. I took a taxi over to the Russian Embassy (in London), stood in line for maybe 15 minutes and dropped off my forms. I was told to come back the next day and pick up my passport. Very easy! I had to pay a little for overnight service, but it was worth it.

Well said, terenz! My sentiments exactly!

Well, too much pride I think! And whom is this pride benefiting? The Russian people? I think not.

There is some realistic, logical thinking around here after all



[This message has been edited by andrzej (edited 05-03-2003).]

The Russian consulate in New York has a page on its website with a list of travel agencies it works with (I don't know to what extent). I had some problems getting all the documents together for a Russian visa until I approached one of these agencies. They made it very, very easy, although at a hefty price.

The original point is that I assume Russia wants people to come and spend money there and I assume that most foreigners do not want to stay in Russia.

If that is true then Russia should make the process of visiting as easy as possible (i.e. no Visa).

The decison for any country to have visa requirements per country should be made by balancing the need / will for tourists and the chances that someone will stay to live in the country.

Clearly different counties have different real answers to that balance.

The immigration/customs people and procedures are the first sight that a foreigner gets of a country and invariably invite conclusions however well or ill founded.

Perhaps Russia puts on a bad face and if so that unfortunate. America, and all the moreso on my last routing through the place, puts on a such a face that is regretable.

Two hours standing in line is an insult. The forced cancellation of my sidetrip to see the (cracked) Liberty Bell was a metaphor of the time and place.

If paranoia with respect to everyone else is to be your rule, then it is with parnoia that everyone else will receive you.

Everyone is coming to exploit and/or harm you, well you are going to exploit and/or harm them, whether with dollars or guns. A fine world that . . . . Respect as much as contempt is a two way street.

Oh yeah, like France does not require most of the 3rd world countries nationals and even some European countries nationals getting visas, yet, they are free to travel to the same countries without.
Give me a break.....



[This message has been edited by andrzej (edited 05-10-2003).]

I don't recall defending France in this respect. And I wouldn't defend my home country in this respect either. I do not have a nationalist axe to grind.

However, the process to obtain a French visa is significantly less cumbersome or intrusive than the process to obtain a US visa.

A French visa can be obtained within 24 hours at most consulates around the world. You go to the counter, you submit your papers, pay a modest fee that begins at EUR 10, and collect your passport the next day.

A US visa requires advance appointments pretty much anywhere in the world, requires documentation that is quite ridiculous (mother's original birth certificate, etc..), has a completely demeaning procedure (stripped of shoelaces, belts, ties, etc... ), costs $100 at a minimum to simply apply (plus issuance costs) and can take upto SIX MONTHS to issue in some places (during which you are passport-less and cannot travel).

If we were to assign grades:

Illegal immigrants want to stay and country does not want them to stay:
Russia:0
France:5
USA :10

Need for turists:
Russia:10
France:5
USA :3

Clearly France and the USA have set costs, hassles, procedures in order to re-enforce these grades.

Russa, it seems, should be making it a lot easier that they currently do.

Has anyone stopped to think that perhaps Russia simply isn't interested in increasing the flow of USA tourist dollars at the moment? It's not an entirely new concept; in fact, many countries consider easy access for tourists to be a net harm to their societies in spite of the potential economic gains. Saudi Arabia, for instance, isn't interested in tourist dollars from anyone outside the GCC. Nepal and Bhutan weren't interested in tourism money from anyone, period, up until recently.

In so many posts in this thread I hear undertones of, "I'm a tourist, not an immigrant, and besides, I have dollars, so open up the door and let me in!" Maybe it's just fine with some governments if people assume there's nobody home and go knock on some other door. Money talks, especially in tourism, but that doesn't mean anyone has to listen.

The era of personal privacy is finished.

At this intermediate point, the US INS is not equipped to identify every in-migrant, whether tourist or long-term illegal, or something else.

Over time technology will allow complete identification of every person. Comings and goings, etc.

Regardless of personal views of privacy, its absence is a fact of the future. At some point complete identification will be implemented. At that time, for those of you still willing to travel and who meet the criteria, I would predict an easy passage into the US or France. As for getting past the guards at Sheremetevo, who knows? That was never truly about identification in the first place.