simpleflyer

I knew this one was too controversial, my apologies to G Leyser. The question of ethics is perhaps a bit beyond the scope of what you were asking G, and as to any implied criticism (which Anonplz feels I have made) I am sorry, G; my question was theoretical, and prompted by a book I've been reading on the subject of morality as it relates to economic efficiency.

[This message has been edited by simpleflyer (edited 08-17-2002).]

[This message has been edited by simpleflyer (edited 08-17-2002).]

[This message has been edited by simpleflyer (edited 08-17-2002).]

anonplz

EDIT: Deleted response (simpleflyer withdrew his question).

No hard feelings - just giving my honest assessment, simpleflyer - I didn't really feel you were criticizing, but I honestly feel that what you presented as a problem, is merely a POTENTIAL problem, and based upon the situation you presented, was making too many unfounded assumptions -

Also, that's what FT is for, to debate things on your mind. Maybe you are a bit hyper-sensitive to this particular issue, but I'm certainly not, and have no problem discussing those things on this forum, if someone else is so inclined. In fact, I often bring up books I've read to support my position on controversial issues, so that's entirely fair.

That's all...

EDIT: Actually, let me add one more thing, since you are interested in the effect of morality on efficiency. I do indeed see your point. It makes sense. But I think the cause-effect hypothesis you present makes a large leap of faith from how it views people and how people actually are, and there are too many "soft" variables involved in the process of efficiency when you talk about people and how they behave and its effect on efficiency.

Also, let me give you a real story: I was acquainted with a girl in high school who was brought up in a very traditional, Protestant household. Her personal ethics were VERY high. She once got a job in a video rental shop. They rented adult videos. She did not like renting adult videos to customers - it made her feel dirty - but she needed the money. She eventually quit, and I don't believe she had another job. In this case, we can see that despite her employer encouraging to break her own personal ethics, she did so at an unacceptable personal cost, and left her job, leaving her employer to have to find another employee, leading to all sorts of other costs. So in this case, yes, your hypothesis works. But only because she went through a decision-making process, and took action based upon her own internal ethics, without listening to what her employer wanted.

[This message has been edited by anonplz (edited 08-17-2002).]

aisleorwindow

Hello all-
I have been unable to reply to questions as I have been VERY busy with work this weekend. I worked 34 hours in the last three days, but such is life in the world of marketing.
While I was unable to check into this thread recently, I completely missed simpleflyer's question, but it sounds like that problem has been resolved.

aisleorwindow

The Rooms Division Manager is more of an executive position, so he/she does not deal with the staff much. This manager also has an equal counterpart from Food & Beverage, from Sales, from Housekeeping, etc. I never made it this far up so I don't really know what these people do on a day to day basis. The next step up is the Assistant GM and then of course GM. There are regional managers who fly in somewhat regularly, and make decisions with the above hotel people. Also the corporate office will have a corp. exec. housekeeper, a corp. exec. concierge, etc, etc. These are desk jobs, and these people rarely make it into the hotels.
I never worked at a franchised hotel, so I don't really know much about their corporate structure. Hope that helps.

aisleorwindow

I actually worked at one of the few non-union hotels in Chicago. Labor disputes are a serious problem. Because the hotel business has suffered post 9/11, many cutbacks have been made and there are less guests coming in, which translates into less money being made by the staff. I have never personally experienced one, but if and when one occurs it is handled by the top execs. of the hotel, AND from the corporate office. The situation almost never gets as far as a sickout because the hotel would fall apart and the management knows that. Right now there is an abundance of available labor in Chicago and I doubt very seriously if the hotel union employees are going to do anything to jeopardize their jobs.

aisleorwindow

This happened to me several times and it really is actually one of the easier days to work. You spend a lot of extra time on the phone, but usually most things can be dealt with. Anyone coming in from out of town cancels, so you have VERY few people checking in. With all these new empty rooms, it should be no problem to extend a guest's stay for another night (the same rate is honored). You will also get some "i'm stuck in O'hare, I need a room" calls.
Deliveries usually still make it, unless we are talking about VERY severe weather. The food & beverage people usually get busy, because nobody leaves the hotel to eat, and the bar is usually full. Staff will also spend the night at the hotel if it is unsafe to drive home (and there is space available).

aisleorwindow

AAA and Mobil, in my opinion do the most thorough job of rating hotels, and reporting honest, useful information.

Here's a link I just found (8/21):
http://www.exxonmobiltravel.com/index.cfm?main=lodging


[This message has been edited by g_leyser (edited 08-21-2002).]

TrojanHorse

If a person disagrees with the AAA and/or Mobil rating, is there a way to make a complaint to AAA or Mobil for them to take into account next time?

I realize that this is a question that I probably should post elsewhere, but reading your answer brought this up in my mind

Thanks for all your answers to all of our questions, very insightful and helpful information, at least from my perspective

DSK

Just caught up with all the posts...quite a read!!
Will be staying in a 5 star hotel in London for the second time to celebrate our anniversary. Arrive 12/26.
Was curious if:
1. They know who I am...ie I've been there before.
2. If this helps for an upgrade
3. What else i can do to make this a special stay via contact with them.

[This message has been edited by DSK (edited 08-19-2002).]

MrAbeFroman

Great thread, I have learned a lot.

The tipping the desk clerk thing is new to me. I have always tipped the maids, but never the desk agents.

Actually a few months ago the desk agent tried (unsuccessfully) to find me tickets for a sold out concert in Boston. I had asked if there was a concierge, and he ended up searching for tickets for me. He tried several places, but was unsuccessful. I ended up getting tickets on my own by going to the venue.

As he was acting as a concierge, and going above and beyond his normal duties, I thought it was only right to give him a tip. When I tried to pass him some money (as discretely as is possible over a chest level counter) he flat refused.

Was I not discrete enough or what? He really did help and I would like to have given him something for his troubles.

bnaboy

Abe Froman, the sausage king of Chicago?

aisleorwindow

Your welcome TrojanHorse, glad to be of help-
I'm betting that you are referring to your experience in Puerto Rico, right? I would wait for their response first (assuming you get one). If you are still not satisfied and you still want to report your experience to AAA or Mobil, then I'm sure that you could do so, and I would bet that you would most likely get a response. I don't know specifically how to get a hold of these agencies. If you can get a hold of one of the actual rating guides, I'm sure there is contact info.

Just found this: http://www.mobil.com/online_store/

Click on "Mobil Travel Guides" then go to "Customer Comments"


[This message has been edited by g_leyser (edited 08-19-2002).]

obscure2k

--Thanks for answering our questions with such candor. without being specific, and during a little "down time" would you be kind enough to share a bit of your background. Thanks. O2K

aisleorwindow

Hi DSK-
Most, if not all, 5 stars have guest history systems, so yes you should be in the system. (If you tell me the specific hotel I can probably tell you for sure.) Also, 12/26 is Boxing Day in London (I think) so the hotel should be very empty, so I would say your chances for an upgrade are VERY good.
A couple of things you MUST do:
-Call and inform the hotel that it is your anniversary and that you want your stay to be VERY SPECIAL, you could even politely ask if an upgrade would be possible. Often fine hotels will give you a bottle of free champagne upon arrival.
-Ask how full the hotel is expected to be, so you know what you're dealing with.
-Politely ask for an upgrade when you check in. You may want to check in without your spouse and say you want to surprise him/her.

Just a couple of the tricks I've encountered. Again, it will ultimately depend on who's working on that day.
Good luck!

Edited for spelling

[This message has been edited by g_leyser (edited 08-19-2002).]

aisleorwindow

An interesting story. In my opinion this guy is a true professional. He probably just didn't feel comfortable taking a tip because he was unable to help you get tickets. Or maybe he was intimidated because he knew you were the "sausage king of Chicago."
Seriously, this is a perfect situation to write a thank you note, explaining your experience and thanking him for his outstanding service. If you really want to give him something for his troubles, write to the GM, or find out who his direct manager is. You won't find many desk agents refusing tips!

Edited for spelling


[This message has been edited by g_leyser (edited 08-19-2002).]