Sorry CPRich, you beat me to the punch. I responded before I saw your post.

What stupid rules are there? Honestly. Please enlighten me. The dumbest rule of asking people about their bags at check-in was tossed out. Nothing is overnight. Everyone is a critic and without offering up suggestions or saying what's wrong, they just generally grip because it's the government and how possibly can they offer us a good service. Please, be for real. They are our neighbors, family, and friends. These are the same people we see at the mall, in school, at the grocery store, at our children�s little league games. They only get their checks from a different place we get ours. None of that means they are stupid or incompetent. In fact, their pay scale, while low to many frequent flyers is quite high in a lot of the localities we have them working in. And it�s MUCH higher than it was before when private security managed screening. We will have screeners at over 400 airports and a vast majority of those are OUT of major metro areas. Meaning that their pay is fairly well off for the areas they live in.

Only dumb if you don't know the reason for it.

Previously, checked bags weren't screened. The security questions were used to single out checked bags that could contain items unknown to the passenger so that those bags could be sent through Xray screening. This procedure was developed after terrorists in Europe had attempted to bomb airliners by hiding bombs in the bags of unsuspecting passengers.

These procedures are no longer necessary due to other changes in how the security of checked baggage is handled.

Well for non-travlers who took the occassional flight and were honest, it might have been a valid question. As for the terrorist being asked the question, all they had to do was lie. It's an honor system to assist with security. Most people don't want to be hassled with having their checked baggage searched for whatever reason. My opinion is they would have fibbed anyways if their bags were out of their control. Generally people are of the mindset, "it couldn't happen to me" or "they were fine the in trunk while I was doing whatever". They don't honestly think something could have happened to their bag so they fib. It's not right, but I'm certain that happened far more times than someone ever fessed up. Just my opinion.

BTW, my comment on them tossing that question out is that they are improving and I gave that as an example. Nothing is overnight and change takes some time. Give them time to define and re-define their policies and practices. They have had the daunting task of creating an agency out of nothing and in rapid fashion. It's so big, so many issues they face, cut them a slight break if you feel hassled or incovienanced. I don't their goal is life is to piss us off. It's to protect the traveling public. Lets see how they are next summer or the summer after that? Have the polices been looked at to make them better or loosen polices that are too strict. Hell, they are still trying to ramp up to over 400 airports. Wait until they do that and can concentrate on making sweeping changes if any.

I guess I wasn't clear.

The questions were not intended to catch a passenger who KNEW that there was a bomb in their luggage. They were intended to select bags which could have been tampered with for Xray screening. The passenger would never have known that his bag had received any extra attention.

Okay, I understand your point now but still as a frequent flyer, I didn't know that I wouldn't be present for this searching. My point is, I still don't think most people would have answered truthfully because, much like me, they didn't know that they wouldn't have bothered by the search. It would have just happened behind the scenes. I personally don't think a lot of people would fuss up and say, yeah, I haven't seen my bags the entire time for whatever reason.

But back to those who knew they had a bomb but lied. To me, it makes the question asking pointless. It's like saying, "Are you going to hijack this plane? Do you have a bomb?" They of course are going to say no and therefore receive no extra screening or xraying with their bags.

I do see what you are saying, but it still comes down to people being honest about their bags and I dont think that everyone is. Sure, some are but there a lot of travelers who probably answered the wrong way and didn't give it another thought. Screening all bags is by far the best method. (Which I'm sure you're in agreement with.)

I just didn't feel the question asking served a real security purpose with the many potential issues.

[This message has been edited by JetTroop (edited 10-27-2002).]

Gladly.

Random security harrassments being required is stupid. And un-American. They are disgusting acts of terrorism against citizens who simply want to travel without harassment. Unless there is probable cause for a search, just checking people for the hell of it is going to continue to destroy the airlines economic viability.

Not letting people have pool cues, cricket bats, pocket knives, etc. on the plane is stupid. No one is going to hijack an airplane with these objects. Oooohhh someone could *conceivably* do it. Yeah, and monkeys could *conceivably* fly out of my butt. There will be no hijackings of US aircraft with pointy objects or with stick/staff type weapons ever again. The passengers will thwart any such effort and the terrorists are not stupid (unlike the TSA) enough to try something like that again.

Mandating air marshals get any seats they want is stupid. Hell, just having these bags of human ballast on board is stupid. They steal premium seats from the airlines and passengers thus ensuring financial ruin for the very entities they are supposedly protecting.

Not letting people airside without an itinerary for that day is stupid. It only works against would-be terrorists without credit cards (to buy refundable tickets) or good printers (to easily forge itineraries). And if you think we need to keep the numbers low to make the screeners' jobs easier, I submit that the screeners' jobs are difficult because they waste their time and the passengers' time with these idiotic "random security" screenings.

Want solutions? You're of the mindset, "we must do something, no matter how stupid it is." We should focus on keeping credible weapons off the aircraft and accept the passengers willingness to fight back against any would-be terrorists. Our mistake was cooperating with terrorists and opening cockpit doors. Not prohibiting box cutters. Not harassing passengers at the gate or the checkpoint.

It's a simple solution that works and will make people return to flying. Sadly, it's too logical for some authoritarian people to grasp.

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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

[This message has been edited by Spiff (edited 10-28-2002).]

Once again, the questions were designed to help identify an unsuspecting passenger who's checked bags contained an explosive of which he is unaware.

This isn't an unrealistic scenario, it's happened a number of times in the past.

You're right, many passengers wouldn't answer the questions truthfully but there are many who would especially if something unusual happened between the time they packed the bags and their arrival at the airport.

Howdy,

TSA folks having a Master Degree heehee, yep I'm sure some of them do. But friends, that in no way demonstrates that they are not idiots.

I hate these folks, they make my life miserable. They paw over my stuff, they treat me like a criminal and they truly enjoy lording non-existant power over me.

I better jump or they will throw me out of the airport. Yeah right. I've been made to drop my pants in Birmingham, swear like a sailor in St. Louis and been groped in Chicago (and trust me, there's plenty to grope, I'm not little

These people disgust me. They enjoy the abuse of their power and the havoc they wreck with their lives.

I'm sorry, "Just doing my job" doesn't cut it. They may weed out a few from the bottom of Argentbright - but with their expanded authority - they are far, far worse.

Just my two cents.

Keep the faith,

Pakse

And the fact that they work for the government means in no way they are idiots either. These are the same people that live in our neighborhoods, we attend PTA meetings with and shop at our grocery stores. To make them all out to be idiots is ridiculous. They work a job and that job is with the TSA to screen passengers.

All of them? You hate all of them? They are mothers, fathers, daughters, sons, friends and Americans. That's a horrible statement and you have demonstrated to me that I now value your opinion as dirt. I refuse to carry this discussion further with someone who's just hates for no other reason than someone who is honestly doing their job. I had no problem going back and forth until you pulled that idiot statement out of your forth point of contact. To think they enjoy feeling you up or that they target you is absurd. Of the original staff at my main airport, only 2 of the previous staff were hired. The rest weren't qualified. As for ORD, our old staff was much more qualified than the old staff at ORD. So I'm certain not nearly as many as you thought were were hired back. I think LarryJ posted that only 5% of those that applied, got hired. So you think that every TSA worker in America makes everyone feel as bad as you? No, you're not an extremist, your just paranoid. I haven't had any problems with any TSA workers and I'm not sure why. I go in, generally happy and I have no problems with them. Go figure. They have always been pretty nice where ever I've been. MYR, CLT, ORD, ROC, PIT. Perhaps it's not them but you and your attitude and resentment towards. Thanks for the discussion up until now. I'm done talking to haters.

[This message has been edited by JetTroop (edited 10-28-2002).]

Ah, the old "I was only doing my job" or "I was only following orders" excuse.

The TSA screeners knew exactly what they were getting into when they took this job. They knew upfront that they would be randomly harassing their fellow citizens without probable cause. They should not be at all surprised that many people view the TSA employees "doing their job" as some of the most unpatriotic people to have ever lived in this country.

True guardians of Freedom would have never agreed to work for the TSA with the present set of idiotic "random security" rules. And if they are not actively working to change the present system from within, one has to question their motivation and ultimately what this nation's principles mean to them.



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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry

I agree they knew what they were getting into when they excepted their job. No doubt about that. But we differ on what we calling it harrasment. I don't feel I've ever been harrassed. And it is their job to search people and bags. I don't get upset when I order french fries at McDonalds and they ask if I want salt or ketchup with that. Nor do I get upset if a TSA worker asks me to step aside for a search. By policy, the TSA does not call them random screenings. They call them continuous. The TSA reps (supervisors) that I've spoken with said, its policy to continully be searching people. Done with one, select the next in line. Much to my luck, I haven't been searched at any of the TSA airports I've visited. After 9-11 and before TSA, I was selected about 50% of the time, because those selections were random and the security agent yanked me. Now it's the airline gate agent.

And that's garbage about true guardians of freedom. Name some true guardians of freedom?

Because the main airport I fly out of, MYR, has a Deputy FSD who is a retired Marine LTC. On the screening staff, you have one retired Sergeant Major, one former special forces sergeant and another from 82nd airborne. I'm sure there are more that I dont know about. I served my time in the military, deployed to Hatii and Germany. So don't give me crap about true guardians of freedom. Bull crap. Been there, done that. Go to Hatii and see how much they like us true guardians.

It's all well and good to serve in the military, but then again Adolph Hitler was a corporal in the army.

Guardians of Freedom refers more to those who founded this nation and whose works help keep it free. The Founding Fathers of this nation would likely have the TSA immediately disbanded for their abuse of citizens. Anyone who restricts rather than preserves people's freedoms in the name of "safety" or "security" deserves no less than deportation to a country with neither.



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"Give me Liberty or give me Death." - Patrick Henry