Efrem

As a follow-up to recent discussions with family and friends, I thought I'd poll this board as to what one must do to claim one has "been in" a country. (This has to do with bragging rights, not rules and regulations of promotions such as oneWorld continents, government regulations or anything else.) Please reply with the LOWEST number you think qualifies, plus any comments you may have. The examples are all from my or friends' recent travels.

1. Plane lands in Seville en route from London to Casablanca. Passenger stays in seat. Can he/she claim to have been in Spain?

2. Plane lands in Helsinki en route from St. Petersburg, Russia, to New York. Passenger gets up, walks around the gate area, then returns to the plane. Can he/she claim to have been in Finland?

3. Passenger lands in Tokyo from Singapore. He/she walks down stairs to tarmac, takes bus to terminal, walks through terminal to another gate, and boards a flight to the U.S. Can he/she claim to have been in Japan?

4. Passenger lands in Perth. He/she clears immigration and customs, walks out of the terminal onto the sidewalk, walks around the airport area for half an hour or so, re-enters the terminal and boards a flight out of the country. Can he/she claim to have been in Australia?

5. Passenger lands, clears immigration and customs, enters the city, does business or tourism things, etc. At this point all of my friends/family agree that he/she can claim to have been in that country.

Thanks for any and all votes!

violist

zero. Person travels to Washington DC and strolls around the front yard of an embassy or two.

doc

FWIW, I'd say one leaves the airport for a brief "stay", perhaps 8 hrs - but at least a couple hrs and ideally overnight!

chexfan

Efram... I had this discussion years back when I was returning from Spain. Flying KLM, we stopped in Amsterdam en route back to JFK. I changed planes, but can I say that I've been to Holland??? Consensus said that I had to clear customs to "Have been there". So I guess I've never been there.

My answer: #4

To add another twist to your pondering, what are the qualifications for being "in a state/province"???

FlyAAway

Let's say that the passenger is scenario #2 is caught shoplifting in the gate area. I think you are in the country. My bet is the vendor and the police think so too.

In any scenario, imagine a woman nine months pregnant (not smart, and not likely, but we are imagining)gives birth. Won't the birth certificate read the country where the plane has landed?

protomartyr

Scenario #6. A person spends a week in the middle of the Pacific on the beach in the French department of Tahiti. Can he claim to have been in France?

Scenario #7. A person goes to Canada. While pondering the image of Her Majesty the Queen on the front of a dollar bill, he realizes that she is the chief of state. Can he claim to have been in Great Britain?

Flying Dutchman

Corollary to Scenario #7: A person travels extensively throughout England. Can he claim to have been to Europe?

l etoile

FlyAAway: There was a situation similar to what you describe a few years ago en route to SFO. A Philippines-flagged carrier was flying in when a passenger on board gave birth in flight. I always wondered what country that baby was a citizen of and what the birth certificate said for place of birth. They were over the US at the time and landed in the US, but on board a foreign carrier.

james

OK, #4 - yes, you've been there.

#3, yes - at a push (if you need to make an important point about how you are intimate with Japanese culture)

#6 - yes, Tahiti is part of Metropolitan France, sends representatives to parliament in Paris, etc.

#7 - Don't be ridiculous

corollary to #7 - just what continent is England in, if not Europe?



[This message has been edited by james (edited 08-07-2000).]

dholloway

corollary to #7 - just what continent is Europe in, if not Europe?

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I think we can all agree that the UK does not fit nicely and squarely into the geoeconosociopolitical construct 'Europe'. If we did all agree, then I don't think there would be as much squabbling going on in Parliament as there presently is.

For example, haven't you ever taken the Eurostar? The signage at Waterloo International and throughout the Jubilee Line Extension clearly indicates that services hail from and go to 'European' destinations. If we all agreed to your construct of Europe, then the local from Croydon would also fit under the rubric 'European'.

james

Firstly, sorry for the typo in my post above, which was confusing but has now been corrected.

Politically the UK is in Europe (because we are in the EU). Geographically the UK is in Europe (there is no reasonable dissenting arguement against that).

In terms of social concscience, there is doubt - semmingly shared among many of the Engligh speaking nations. It arises from the semantic difference between 'Europe' and 'Continental Europe'. Many people use 'Europe' to mean 'Continental Europe', hence Flying Dutchman's original post. As for the squabling in parliament (and the media) for short term party gain, can you think of anything in recent years that has worked so much against our national interest? In that context, I don't care whether we are in or out, but the uncertainty and half-heartedness is incredibly detructive.

However, I think anywhere you can go on the local from Croydon is a 'European destination'. The fact they are signed differently may add to clarity but is to nobody's great credit. And I ask you again, 'just what continent is England in, if not Europe?'.

[This message has been edited by james (edited 08-07-2000).]

dholloway

My grandparents used to refer to 'Europe and the British Isles'.

Since their childhood, though, Ireland would then be the odd one out.

'Europe and the British Isles and Eire' is quite a mouthful, but I have a feeling some here would be more than happy with that nomenclature.

The place-name 'Continent' seems to have fallen out of current use, but seems potentially more useful now than in decades past.

For example, Waterloo International signage could easily have used 'Continental' services, which completely avoids any political flavouring at all.

Maybe, with any luck while the UK figures out where it belongs in the world jigsaw puzzle, the term 'Continent' will come back into vogue.

GK

As a European (and a UK) resident, I myself only classify having 'been' anywhere if I have actually seen, eaten, slept or enjoyed myself in the destination.. so answer is #5. I always use careful language to describe transit situations - as the airport experience is always far different from the actual city.

silverpie

I haven't been to enough countries for this to matter, but I count myself as having been in a state at about #2, or maybe #3. (This affects only Texas, Michigan, and Arizona in my case.)

protomartyr

Technically speaking, your grandparents were correct and would still be correct today. 'The British Isles' is a geographical rather than a political term. It was used in the era when the isles were a group of independant kingdoms and has withstood a myriad of governmental ebbs and flows over the centuries. It is still valid in the 21st century.