Background checks... Is this true?
Mar 14, 2003 | 11:35 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Columbus, GA, USA
Posts: 2
Background checks... Is this true?
DELTA RUNNING BACKGROUND CHECKS
Starting later this month, Delta passengers will be asked a lot
more than 'window or aisle', or whether you want that 'special meal'. Delta
wants to know more: a lot more. As a pilot test of a new Orwellian airline
'security' program, Delta will be running background checks on anyone who
flies Delta from one of three as-yet undisclosed airports.
What will Delta do?
a.. Run a credit check on you;
b.. Investigate your banking history;
c.. Run a criminal background check.
You will then be assigned you own Threat Assessment Color
Greens will pass through security as normal.
Yellows would require additional screening.
Reds are not allowed to fly.
How will they determine what color you are?
No one knows.
Does a bad credit rating make you a terrorist?
No one knows.
Will an unpaid parking ticket flag you 'red'?
No one knows.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
WHAT DO WE KNOW?
For starters, this is an incredible invasion of privacy.
All the information gathered will be stored for fifty
(50!) years on computers that may or may not be safe from malicious hackers
out to steal your identity. Airlines can barely be trusted with luggage. Do
you really want to trust Delta with your bank account, SSN, mother's maiden
name, and credit rating? By their own admission, Delta's computer servers
are attacked over 500 times a day.
DELTA : CREDIT KILLER
Every time a credit report is run on you, it hurts your
credit rating.
Frequent fliers will not only have a nice thick Delta
dossier, but a damaged credit history to boot. Mileage or mortgage: the
choice is yours.
Starting later this month, Delta passengers will be asked a lot
more than 'window or aisle', or whether you want that 'special meal'. Delta
wants to know more: a lot more. As a pilot test of a new Orwellian airline
'security' program, Delta will be running background checks on anyone who
flies Delta from one of three as-yet undisclosed airports.
What will Delta do?
a.. Run a credit check on you;
b.. Investigate your banking history;
c.. Run a criminal background check.
You will then be assigned you own Threat Assessment Color
Greens will pass through security as normal.
Yellows would require additional screening.
Reds are not allowed to fly.
How will they determine what color you are?
No one knows.
Does a bad credit rating make you a terrorist?
No one knows.
Will an unpaid parking ticket flag you 'red'?
No one knows.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
WHAT DO WE KNOW?
For starters, this is an incredible invasion of privacy.
All the information gathered will be stored for fifty
(50!) years on computers that may or may not be safe from malicious hackers
out to steal your identity. Airlines can barely be trusted with luggage. Do
you really want to trust Delta with your bank account, SSN, mother's maiden
name, and credit rating? By their own admission, Delta's computer servers
are attacked over 500 times a day.
DELTA : CREDIT KILLER
Every time a credit report is run on you, it hurts your
credit rating.
Frequent fliers will not only have a nice thick Delta
dossier, but a damaged credit history to boot. Mileage or mortgage: the
choice is yours.
Mar 14, 2003 | 3:37 pm
#2
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: MRY
Posts: 539
Well I'm not as "well rounded" about these things as I probably should be but... I've heard that in the State of California one is able to "close" their credit. Meaning that you have enough credit, want no more issued. This, in effect, prevents "identity theft" from happening. This option is available in certain States although I'm not sure which others besides the Golden State. In any case, I wonder, if I closed my "credit" would Delta still be able to "run" a check. Anyone?
Mar 14, 2003 | 3:40 pm
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Department of Homeland Sincerity
Programs: WN Platinum, UA 1k, AA EP, Marriott Plat
Posts: 12,317
First of all, the Delta background check is true, a pilot for CAPPS II (see in the news forum for more info).
Secondly, the credit check is different from the credit check that happens when you apply for credit.
When Delta runs the credit check, it's akin to a marketing company running a credit survey to determine who to offer pre-approved credit cards to. This is usually noted in a different manner from the normal credit application check, and has no negative effect on credit whatsoever. In fact, a lender most likely won't even see these types of credit checks.
With that said, I dislike the process and think it's an invasion of privacy.
Secondly, the credit check is different from the credit check that happens when you apply for credit.
When Delta runs the credit check, it's akin to a marketing company running a credit survey to determine who to offer pre-approved credit cards to. This is usually noted in a different manner from the normal credit application check, and has no negative effect on credit whatsoever. In fact, a lender most likely won't even see these types of credit checks.
With that said, I dislike the process and think it's an invasion of privacy.
Mar 14, 2003 | 4:25 pm
#5
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Department of Homeland Sincerity
Programs: WN Platinum, UA 1k, AA EP, Marriott Plat
Posts: 12,317
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by rawbert:
So what happens when I refuse to answer personel questions about myself?
rawbert</font>
So what happens when I refuse to answer personel questions about myself?
rawbert</font>
Mar 15, 2003 | 8:13 am
#6
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: LON, SFO, SYD
Posts: 409
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by zoomzoom:
DELTA RUNNING BACKGROUND CHECKS
What will Delta do?
a.. Run a credit check on you;
b.. Investigate your banking history;
c.. Run a criminal background check.
</font>
DELTA RUNNING BACKGROUND CHECKS
What will Delta do?
a.. Run a credit check on you;
b.. Investigate your banking history;
c.. Run a criminal background check.
</font>
Mar 15, 2003 | 8:19 am
#7
Original Member
Join Date: May 1998
Location: CH-3823 Wengen Switzerland
Programs: miles&more, MileagePlus
Posts: 27,043
they (the USA) already agreed with the EU about cooperation.
Switzerland (Swiss Airways International), not being an EU member, now, according to serious swiss newspapers, is in difficulties how to comply when asked for (they expect the USA to ask them the same in short time) - as this is against 'privacy 'laws' in my country ... (other questions arise for Swiss and other international carriers: how to comply with connecting passengers, influence on check-in and conneting times at airports, etc. etc.).
Switzerland (Swiss Airways International), not being an EU member, now, according to serious swiss newspapers, is in difficulties how to comply when asked for (they expect the USA to ask them the same in short time) - as this is against 'privacy 'laws' in my country ... (other questions arise for Swiss and other international carriers: how to comply with connecting passengers, influence on check-in and conneting times at airports, etc. etc.).
Mar 15, 2003 | 8:45 am
#8
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 3,081
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Rudi:
they (the USA) already agreed with the EU about cooperation.
Switzerland (Swiss Airways International), not being an EU member, now, according to serious swiss newspapers, is in difficulties how to comply when asked for (they expect the USA to ask them the same in short time) - as this is against 'privacy 'laws' in my country ... (other questions arise for Swiss and other international carriers: how to comply with connecting passengers, influence on check-in and conneting times at airports, etc. etc.).</font>
they (the USA) already agreed with the EU about cooperation.
Switzerland (Swiss Airways International), not being an EU member, now, according to serious swiss newspapers, is in difficulties how to comply when asked for (they expect the USA to ask them the same in short time) - as this is against 'privacy 'laws' in my country ... (other questions arise for Swiss and other international carriers: how to comply with connecting passengers, influence on check-in and conneting times at airports, etc. etc.).</font>
" Information on passengers supplied to the US intelligence services by European airlines is to be suspended after worries over data protection rules.
The European Parliament, meeting in Strasbourg, has voted by an overwhelming majority to overturn an agreement made between European and US officials last month for the supply of information.
The Parliament adopted by 414 votes to 44 a resolution regretting the joint declaration of February 19 which allows European airlines to transfer data on passengers flying to the US to US Customs. "
http://news.airwise.com/display/stor...047641594.html
Nigel
Mar 15, 2003 | 9:22 pm
#10
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: MCI ** UA Silver, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium
Posts: 1,297
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by Kris Rao:
How will they be able to run check on non US nationals? </font>
How will they be able to run check on non US nationals? </font>
Mar 16, 2003 | 10:27 am
#11
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
Programs: HH Silver. (Former UA PP, DL PM, PC Plat)
Posts: 9,530
Here is some information from a Delta employee on the test program:
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Here is the truth about the Capps II testing and Delta's role. It will be mandated for all airlines soon so I would plan on boycotting everyone. Delta was selected by the TSA for the test because they have the best computer systems at the moment.
What the TSA Says, Now that Delta is in Hot Water for Helping the New Police State:
Privacy and security are equal priorities of the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) as it develops the next generation of the Computer Assisted Passenger Prescreening System (CAPPS II), James M. Loy, TSA administrator, said today [Wednesday].
CAPPS II is an enhanced system to confirm the identities of passengers and to identify foreign terrorists or persons with terrorist connections before they can board U.S. aircraft. The carefully limited system is being developed in compliance with the Aviation and Transportation Security Act, which Congress passed in response to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
TSA officials continue to meet with stakeholders to discuss privacy and civil liberties issues related to the security program. All views will be carefully considered as TSA develops the protocols that define the system as well as the privacy strategy. In addition, briefings are held regularly with congressional leaders regarding CAPPS II development.
"TSA has sought to meet the urgent need to heighten security at airports as we press the war against terrorists. We will accomplish this without compromising the privacy and civil liberties enjoyed by every American," the pensioned Coast Guard Admiral said.
Lockheed Martin Management and Data Systems is assisting TSA in developing CAPPS II, which in less than five seconds will confirm a passenger's identity and score any potential terrorism-related threat to aviation.
Once CAPPS II is in operation, travelers may well notice that fewer passengers will be selected for additional screening after they go through the security checkpoint; "enhanced" screening of individuals who clearly pose no threat of terrorism will be eliminated. TSA expects to test CAPPS II this spring and implement it throughout the U.S. commercial air travel system by the summer of 2004.
As part of the pre-screening system, every U.S. commercial air carrier would provide TSA only with the information all airlines will collect during the normal reservation and ticketing process.
Subsequently, TSA's CAPPS II will receive scores generated from commercial databases which are routinely used millions of times a day by private enterprises in connection with job candidates or market research and which are already subject to legal and privacy protections. TSA will not see the data used to generate those scores. Further, once a passenger's travel is complete, TSA will not retain any information whatsoever about that traveler.
Some critics have erroneously contended that a parking ticket or late credit card payment would keep someone from flying. This is simply inaccurate. Indeed, credit ratings -- bad or good -- will not lead to enhanced scrutiny at the airport. The vast majority of passengers identified by CAPPS II will score "green" and need only normal screening, dramatically reducing the number of travelers who undergo additional screening at the security checkpoint. A small percentage of passengers with scores in the "yellow" range will need to have some additional scrutiny.
Few of the close to two million passengers who fly each day will trigger "red," blocking them from flying and drawing the attention of law enforcement.
"Except in cases where terrorist connections are found, the government, including TSA screeners, will never see or hold the commercial information used to conduct a analysis, which will be discarded when the flight is over," Loy said. "CAPPS II will dramatically enhance customer service by identifying the vast majority of air travelers as innocent passengers who deserve to be screened efficiently and protected as they fly. The privacy rights of all passengers will be honored."
When CAPPS II is implemented, an independent ombudsman will be available to address concerns of individuals who believe they have been incorrectly singled out for additional screening.
TSA asked Delta Air Lines to provide assistance during the early development of the system's infrastructure to be certain that TSA can obtain the necessary passenger reservation and ticketing data from airlines. This (sic) data will be limited to name, address, telephone number and date of birth of the passenger.That is the only info Delt or any airline will provide. It will not be used to generate risk scores in this initial infrastructure test. Delta has no role in directing or supervising the CAPPS II program, nor is it conducting any sort of background checks on behalf of TSA.
"We are grateful for the assistance provided by Delta Air Lines," Loy said. "Delta is not only sophisticated in terms of technology and data security, but has been consistently sensitive to privacy issues, as we have been."
Again this is a TSA not Delta program. Had Delta refused to provide the data requested the TSA would have used another airline or simply ordered Delta to do so. All airlines will be required to provide this Data in the near future. If you feel this is not right you need to contact you elected officials.
</font>
What the TSA Says, Now that Delta is in Hot Water for Helping the New Police State:
Privacy and security are equal priorities of the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) as it develops the next generation of the Computer Assisted Passenger Prescreening System (CAPPS II), James M. Loy, TSA administrator, said today [Wednesday].
CAPPS II is an enhanced system to confirm the identities of passengers and to identify foreign terrorists or persons with terrorist connections before they can board U.S. aircraft. The carefully limited system is being developed in compliance with the Aviation and Transportation Security Act, which Congress passed in response to the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001.
TSA officials continue to meet with stakeholders to discuss privacy and civil liberties issues related to the security program. All views will be carefully considered as TSA develops the protocols that define the system as well as the privacy strategy. In addition, briefings are held regularly with congressional leaders regarding CAPPS II development.
"TSA has sought to meet the urgent need to heighten security at airports as we press the war against terrorists. We will accomplish this without compromising the privacy and civil liberties enjoyed by every American," the pensioned Coast Guard Admiral said.
Lockheed Martin Management and Data Systems is assisting TSA in developing CAPPS II, which in less than five seconds will confirm a passenger's identity and score any potential terrorism-related threat to aviation.
Once CAPPS II is in operation, travelers may well notice that fewer passengers will be selected for additional screening after they go through the security checkpoint; "enhanced" screening of individuals who clearly pose no threat of terrorism will be eliminated. TSA expects to test CAPPS II this spring and implement it throughout the U.S. commercial air travel system by the summer of 2004.
As part of the pre-screening system, every U.S. commercial air carrier would provide TSA only with the information all airlines will collect during the normal reservation and ticketing process.
Subsequently, TSA's CAPPS II will receive scores generated from commercial databases which are routinely used millions of times a day by private enterprises in connection with job candidates or market research and which are already subject to legal and privacy protections. TSA will not see the data used to generate those scores. Further, once a passenger's travel is complete, TSA will not retain any information whatsoever about that traveler.
Some critics have erroneously contended that a parking ticket or late credit card payment would keep someone from flying. This is simply inaccurate. Indeed, credit ratings -- bad or good -- will not lead to enhanced scrutiny at the airport. The vast majority of passengers identified by CAPPS II will score "green" and need only normal screening, dramatically reducing the number of travelers who undergo additional screening at the security checkpoint. A small percentage of passengers with scores in the "yellow" range will need to have some additional scrutiny.
Few of the close to two million passengers who fly each day will trigger "red," blocking them from flying and drawing the attention of law enforcement.
"Except in cases where terrorist connections are found, the government, including TSA screeners, will never see or hold the commercial information used to conduct a analysis, which will be discarded when the flight is over," Loy said. "CAPPS II will dramatically enhance customer service by identifying the vast majority of air travelers as innocent passengers who deserve to be screened efficiently and protected as they fly. The privacy rights of all passengers will be honored."
When CAPPS II is implemented, an independent ombudsman will be available to address concerns of individuals who believe they have been incorrectly singled out for additional screening.
TSA asked Delta Air Lines to provide assistance during the early development of the system's infrastructure to be certain that TSA can obtain the necessary passenger reservation and ticketing data from airlines. This (sic) data will be limited to name, address, telephone number and date of birth of the passenger.That is the only info Delt or any airline will provide. It will not be used to generate risk scores in this initial infrastructure test. Delta has no role in directing or supervising the CAPPS II program, nor is it conducting any sort of background checks on behalf of TSA.
"We are grateful for the assistance provided by Delta Air Lines," Loy said. "Delta is not only sophisticated in terms of technology and data security, but has been consistently sensitive to privacy issues, as we have been."
Again this is a TSA not Delta program. Had Delta refused to provide the data requested the TSA would have used another airline or simply ordered Delta to do so. All airlines will be required to provide this Data in the near future. If you feel this is not right you need to contact you elected officials.
</font>
Mar 16, 2003 | 7:34 pm
#12
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: source of weird and eccentric ideas
Posts: 40,031
I will fight this tooth and nail. It is an outrageous invasion of privacy. See lively discussions In The News.
Summary of reasons to be against:
1. other countries will start doing this to you -- requiring all this info when you want to travel there. Do you want to provide all this info to countries like Singapore, China, just to name a few? Nothing against those countries but you get the point.
2. what will they do with this info? "Trust them" -- yeah right.
3. this will create virtual borders within the USA. Perhaps in the near future you will be stopped from travel if you owe child support, have warrants for things, and so forth.
4. There is no limit to what this could do in enforcing the strictures of a totalitarian state. Freedom of travel and freedom from the government monitoring your travel is a fundamental right.
5. If you can't travel or you are harrassed every time, you will never know why. There is no recourse, no appeal. The algorithms used are secret. If you are red, you are SOL and nothing you can do about it.
Summary of reasons to be against:
1. other countries will start doing this to you -- requiring all this info when you want to travel there. Do you want to provide all this info to countries like Singapore, China, just to name a few? Nothing against those countries but you get the point.
2. what will they do with this info? "Trust them" -- yeah right.
3. this will create virtual borders within the USA. Perhaps in the near future you will be stopped from travel if you owe child support, have warrants for things, and so forth.
4. There is no limit to what this could do in enforcing the strictures of a totalitarian state. Freedom of travel and freedom from the government monitoring your travel is a fundamental right.
5. If you can't travel or you are harrassed every time, you will never know why. There is no recourse, no appeal. The algorithms used are secret. If you are red, you are SOL and nothing you can do about it.
Mar 16, 2003 | 11:13 pm
#13
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
Programs: HH Silver. (Former UA PP, DL PM, PC Plat)
Posts: 9,530
<font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Originally posted by richard:</font>
2. The system retains it until your flight is complete if you're rated green or yellow or submit it to law enforcement if you're rated red. The information that the system gathers is all already publically available anyway.
3. Unwarrented extrapolation.
4. No one is monitoring your travel except, perhaps, the airline's FF program.
5. There is an appeal process.
Mar 17, 2003 | 10:06 am
#15
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: source of weird and eccentric ideas
Posts: 40,031
Some people don't mind having to get permission from the "authorities" whenever they travel. How this resembles anything like liberty or freedom is beyond me, although we can always rationalize anything.
Turn this around and that is exactly what it amounts to -- needing permission to travel.
This isn't going to make us safer because terrorists use false papers anyway. So it is another way to lose our freedom and there is no corresponding "benefit."
Turn this around and that is exactly what it amounts to -- needing permission to travel.
This isn't going to make us safer because terrorists use false papers anyway. So it is another way to lose our freedom and there is no corresponding "benefit."