Teacher49

Perhaps I misunderstood you or you me. I am not suggesting that one tip for poor service anywhere anytime. This is a discussion I had with my daughter early in her service job. It is not enough to get the order right, most people dining out are paying for a pleasant experience as well as the food. She understood and her tips zoomed.

Still without tips, she could not survive. It really doesn't matter that she is studying art. Many of her co-workers are trying to support families and will be stuck in those jobs for a long long time. The industry is built on the principle that servers are, in fact, in business for themselves after a fashion, and that the customer is expected to pay for service ... if adequate.

Of course no one forced her to take the job. I understand that and so does she. However, many of her co-workers really have no other choice. Some, I assume, are illegal in the US (I began that way here myself) and others simply have no language or skills to anything but the scut work.

The cleaners in hotels, busers in restaurants and others in work no one really wants to do very often fall into that category.

I, too, began my business with enormous credit card debt, great personal risk, and many, many 16 - 20 hour days. But I had a good education, above average intelligence, and many other advantages. I know that not everyone can do what I have done ... a rather modest success at that!

My point is simply that if a system is set up not to properly include service, and if the service is properly performed, it is not correct, IMO, to stiff the people performing the work. I know what many people in this city and others around this rich country have to end up doing in order to make their way out of the conditions from which they came. I stick by my "judgment" if someone of means is cavalier about the working conditions of those less fortunate or even less intelligent and if they stiff those who are working for tips.

Best wishes,

Teacher49

Droneklax

I agree with the Professor.

This tipping thing is out of control. Tip the maid, tip the baggage handler, tip the room service guy, tip Jesus, ENOUGH. Give these people a living wage. They got one? Good. Then leave me alone.

The American people need to collectively get group therapy. What's this about? A need to feel better about something?

Xyzzy

The whole tipping thing is out of control. I love visiting other countries where people are actually happy to do their jobs without sticking their hands out. In the US I tip waiters/waitresses, but ONLY because I know that their pay is set up so that they get close to zero plus tips. Beyond that I have no idea who is expected to be tipped. Everyone has a hand out, though.

FYI, a US Department of Labor chart detailing minimum wages for jobs where tips are expected can be found here.

The_Diamond_Z

I agree, well mostly. If the menu says $1 for an item + tax then I expect to pay $1 + tax. If I'm at a sit down restaurant, I expect the price to also include someone bringing the food to my table. If it doesn't I expect to pay a price that reflects that and as long as I know that going in...I don't mind.

What I find out of control is paying for and expecting the sit down service from the restaurant...and then being charged again for the sit down service by the waiter. If it's more than someone bringing me the food....as long as I asked for it or I'm at least given the choice to refuse it...I'm happy to reward it.

It's the expectation of the tip that bothers me. Tips are not something to be expected...they are a reward for exceptional service. People don't work for tips...they work for a wage from an employer...if the wage isn't good enough...don't take the job. Tips...that's the consumer choice.

Is bringing me the food I'm paying for exceptional service? IMO:no. Is doing more than expected (even recommending a dish I might like or not like) exceptional service? Maybe.

The problems you're refering to won't be solved with tips, though I agree that it is a serious problem. The lack of adequate income is at the root of so many social ills today including terrorism, gang violence and hooliganism, apathetic youth and if you believe the latest Time magazine: obesity.

I don't have the answer...but I suspect an unearned redistribution of wealth isn't even close.

I grabbed every opportunity I could in America and I'm happy to not be at the bottom of the ladder anymore...and I'll fight tooth and nail to not go back. I may not throw tips around just because people expect it, but I go out of my way to provide opportunity to those that will grab it (and that both costs me and rewards them much more than a tip).

This doesn't make me heartless...just practical.

KVS

The root of the problem is the tipping system used in the US.

Using a server at a restaurant as an example, this is the way it should be (and also the way it is in most countries):

• Bad Service --> Server fired
• Good Service --> Server is paid a good salary
• Exceptional* Service --> TIP

And this is how the US system operates:

• Bad Service --> Server continues to work at the place, but gets no tip
• Good Service --> Server gets a "standard tip" (which is an oxymoron in itself)
• Exceptional* Service --> Big TIP

* By "Exceptional" service I mean an employee going beyond what is expected of him/her. The following are examples of what does not qualify under this category:

• A server bringing you food at a full-service restaurant.
• A maid at a 5***** hotel who makes-up your room to the standard, expected from a hotel of that level.

It is the employer and not the guest who should be expected to pay them appropriately for the service they provide.

taucher

That can be said for many occupations which you come into contact with daily. Do you then tip the stockclerks, the flight attendants, the rental car cleaners, the cinema ushers, or the janitors at your kid's school?

In the absence of a convincing rationale to tip one group of non-sub-minimum-wage workers for standard tasks over another group, I'll stick with tipping only for optional services.


First, the concept of tipping the housekeeper is not generally accepted (as evidenced by the informal poll I mentioned above and by the sharp disagreement here on FT about the subject).

Second, the cost of cleaning is included in the price of the room. The same can be said of takeout food - or would you tip for that too?

cravenstatus

1. Look everyone in the eye.
2. Learn and remember names.
3. Tip people in service jobs.

I believe these are the right things to do, and if someone needs to know the reasons why, I probably could not explain it to them.

njvj

Bravo Cravenstatus!
Sometimes you do things because it feels right to your conscience(sp?).
I have an MBA in finance and I understand that the housekeepers accepted the terms of employment and that the clean room is included in the price- YADA, YADA, YADA.
I also understand that I have had opportunities a lot of other people don't. I work very hard and most of my travels are for business. If I tip the housekeeper it is out of my own pocket and I am happy to do it. I am very fortunate to have $3 extra every day. I don't think that I am saving the world on those 5 days a month when I am in a hotel and leave $3 on the dresser. I am doing what I feel is the right thing.
For those of you who feel that it is wrong to tip, don't . For those of us who feel it is important to tip, let's keep the singles at the ready!

TRRed

A couple of sundry comments:

1. Yes, Professor, there are fast food restaurants in the US like McD's which have tip jars (unfortunately).

2. There is an ongoing discussion on restaurant tipping (especially take-out)in the Dining Forum, for anyone interested.

3. I tip housekeepers irregularly. Upon doing so one day, a small candy jar appeared in my room. In other cases, I have also left a couple of dollars on the bed and came back to find the money on top of the covers.

4. People at or near min. wage are not the only ones seeking tips. The same coffee shops which have signs out for help wanted at $8-12/hour also usually have tip jars by the register. (IMHO, someone who has only taken my money has not performed a service worthy of a tip.)

5. I have never quite figured out what is the appropriate base for determining the amount to tip in restaurants like family steakhouses where you stand in line to get your drink, place order, pay, and take your tray to the table and the server only brings your food to the table and refills drinks. I normally tip about $1/person. Thoughts?

nd_eric_77

Do you tip your accountant? Your doctor? The person who mows your lawn? The plumber? The flight attendant? Your attorney?

FYI, ALL of those are technically "service jobs". They do not sell goods. They make a living by providing services.

hiyo

Do you seriously not know the distinction between professions and trades and "service jobs?"

The Winger

What no one has mentioned is everything in Europe costs double, and the people in the service industry are paid much higher than they are in North America. Eating in a restaurant or staying in a hotel is much cheaper here in part due to the low wages paid service staff.

Things to think about next time your travel brings you to NA and you enjoy the value of your £ or € combined with much lower everyday prices.

WHBM

There are some British - US comparisons on tipping practice in this thread already, so I'll just add a few points that surprise us from over here.

Firstly the high percentage a US server expects, which seems to have gone up from 15% some years ago to 18%, now to 20%, on what is often a much higher tab than for the equivalent in the UK, and woe betide you if you don't give this much at least, you get dirty looks or sometimes outright rudeness (especially in Miami).

Secondly, instructions from junior managers (like restaurant hosts) to "tip more than in Britain, now", presumably because they think anyone with a British accent is not travel-wise

Lastly the way that those who are giving these higher tips ram this fact down the throats of anyone and everyone who is within earshot (or reading their FT posts!)

Internaut

Another thing I've noticed here: Why do so many people here spend so much time thinking so hard about whether or not and how how much to tip. Just do it or not and if one of those options marks you out as bleeding heart liberal or a rabid right wing nut job then so be it. To each his own....

doctall41

If I'm in a room for more than one night (rare) I usually hand the Do not Disturb sign on the door. I don't really want any hotel staff in my room rummaging through my stuff. I can live with a small mess, knowing that my stuff has not been bothered.