Boeing and Lufthansa
Feb 13, 2001 | 5:15 pm
#1
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Boeing and Lufthansa
I saw a CNN news today about Boeing is persuading LH to buy its 747X. It mentioned that LH is the largest Boeing customer outside the US. I thought it was BA. Anyway anyone knows which airlines is the biggest customer of Boeing? AA, UA or DL?
Feb 14, 2001 | 3:02 am
#5
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Dear americans,
Allow me to introduce you to a concept called competition. Boeing recieve subsidies for development, they just call it defence work. if someone offered to create 20000 jobs in seattle, i am sure the federal goverment would help out. especially if they were going to create a superior, more cost efficent, and eco friendly product.
just my 2c
JG
Allow me to introduce you to a concept called competition. Boeing recieve subsidies for development, they just call it defence work. if someone offered to create 20000 jobs in seattle, i am sure the federal goverment would help out. especially if they were going to create a superior, more cost efficent, and eco friendly product.
just my 2c
JG
Feb 14, 2001 | 5:27 am
#6
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jongar: and that is relevant how?
The rest: Delta and American have each signed exclusive supplier agreements with Boeing (for a 20 year period, I believe) that, among other things, gives them guaranteed low volume prices and a great deal of flexibility in substituting aircraft types and delivery dates.
As to the biggest customer of Boeing. I don't know, but it would depend on whether you were counting airplanes, $$ spent, or were restricting it to a particular time frame.
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"Service" should be a noun, not a verb.
The rest: Delta and American have each signed exclusive supplier agreements with Boeing (for a 20 year period, I believe) that, among other things, gives them guaranteed low volume prices and a great deal of flexibility in substituting aircraft types and delivery dates.
As to the biggest customer of Boeing. I don't know, but it would depend on whether you were counting airplanes, $$ spent, or were restricting it to a particular time frame.
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"Service" should be a noun, not a verb.
Feb 14, 2001 | 8:48 am
#7
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The E.U. (and by relation N.A.T.O.) countries have defense procurement budgets too. It's just that the E.U. countries apparently use on average 90% of the procurement budget on the process itself rather than on equipment, while the U.S. uses only 1/3.
Imagine 17 U.S. states having their own military and different standards and you get the idea.
Latest news is that R-R is getting some GBP 250 mm in launch aid for the new line of Trent engines for the 747X and A380. I would have thought R-R is big enough to go it alone.
[This message has been edited by terenz (edited 02-14-2001).]
Imagine 17 U.S. states having their own military and different standards and you get the idea.
Latest news is that R-R is getting some GBP 250 mm in launch aid for the new line of Trent engines for the 747X and A380. I would have thought R-R is big enough to go it alone.
[This message has been edited by terenz (edited 02-14-2001).]
Feb 14, 2001 | 9:22 am
#8
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I just quickly checked the total orders for several US and World airlines on the Boeing website and here are the results. Keep in mind that these are total orders placed by the airline and does not include planes obtained in mergers but does include totals from MD.
LH 316
BA 308
AF 180
KL 165
AA 995
DL 804
UA 923
CO 421
US 233
LH 316
BA 308
AF 180
KL 165
AA 995
DL 804
UA 923
CO 421
US 233
Feb 14, 2001 | 1:53 pm
#9
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Boeing dropped that clause as part of the conditions it had to fulfill in order for the EU to approve its merger with MDD.
Originally posted by LexPassenger:
...Delta and American have each signed exclusive supplier agreements with Boeing (for a 20 year period, I believe) that, among other things, gives them guaranteed low volume prices and a great deal of flexibility in substituting aircraft types and delivery dates.
...Delta and American have each signed exclusive supplier agreements with Boeing (for a 20 year period, I believe) that, among other things, gives them guaranteed low volume prices and a great deal of flexibility in substituting aircraft types and delivery dates.
Feb 14, 2001 | 5:54 pm
#10
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SK: Sure (nudge, nudge, wink, wink).
These airlines still signed the deal a few years ago and, IMO, are about as likely to buy an Airbus as Legend is.
They each remain committed to a simplified, and ultimately all Boeing, fleet.
Applefan: I think the Boeing list now includes some number of Douglas planes too.
Eg, DL's total fleet right now is fewer than 804 planes, and it includes numerous MD80s and still a few 1011s. They still own almost all the Boeing jets they ever bought, except for a few 747s and about 40 727s they recently sold. So, I don't think the numbers add up unless they include DC8s &9s and MD80s.
So, the answer to nlp's original question is still: it depends. Do you mean planes sold as Boeings at the time, planes now counted as Boeings, total $$ value? These may be different answers.
These airlines still signed the deal a few years ago and, IMO, are about as likely to buy an Airbus as Legend is.
They each remain committed to a simplified, and ultimately all Boeing, fleet.
Applefan: I think the Boeing list now includes some number of Douglas planes too.
Eg, DL's total fleet right now is fewer than 804 planes, and it includes numerous MD80s and still a few 1011s. They still own almost all the Boeing jets they ever bought, except for a few 747s and about 40 727s they recently sold. So, I don't think the numbers add up unless they include DC8s &9s and MD80s.
So, the answer to nlp's original question is still: it depends. Do you mean planes sold as Boeings at the time, planes now counted as Boeings, total $$ value? These may be different answers.
Feb 14, 2001 | 6:51 pm
#11
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LexPassenger,
Yes the totals do include DC-8s, 9s, MD-88, MD-90s and MD-11s for Delta. If you go to the Boeing Website and choose custom reports you can get the exact details. Keep if mind, I posted orders and not delivers so they probably have some canceled orders in their history. However, I believe that the totals do not include the Western and Northeastern planes they received in their mergers with Delta. You could add the totals from the custom reports of each airline.
[This message has been edited by Applefan (edited 02-14-2001).]
Yes the totals do include DC-8s, 9s, MD-88, MD-90s and MD-11s for Delta. If you go to the Boeing Website and choose custom reports you can get the exact details. Keep if mind, I posted orders and not delivers so they probably have some canceled orders in their history. However, I believe that the totals do not include the Western and Northeastern planes they received in their mergers with Delta. You could add the totals from the custom reports of each airline.
[This message has been edited by Applefan (edited 02-14-2001).]
Feb 14, 2001 | 11:00 pm
#12
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jongar -
I respectfully disagree with your comment about Boeing military subsidies. It's true, boeing receives military funds, but they produce amazing weapons.
http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/.../index.htm#abl
Imagine an airplane with an onboard high energy chemical laser that can shoot down missiles over their own launch territory. With help from Boeing, the US is fast making it a reality.
In the future when Saddam Hussein threatens to fire off a Scud missile loaded with a biological warhead, he can consider the possibility of a BOEING 747 sending that payload straight back to Baghdad.
It's not a subsidy, friend. It's a fabulous company that is paid for their work.
I respectfully disagree with your comment about Boeing military subsidies. It's true, boeing receives military funds, but they produce amazing weapons.
http://www.boeing.com/defense-space/.../index.htm#abl
Imagine an airplane with an onboard high energy chemical laser that can shoot down missiles over their own launch territory. With help from Boeing, the US is fast making it a reality.
In the future when Saddam Hussein threatens to fire off a Scud missile loaded with a biological warhead, he can consider the possibility of a BOEING 747 sending that payload straight back to Baghdad.
It's not a subsidy, friend. It's a fabulous company that is paid for their work.
Feb 14, 2001 | 11:14 pm
#13
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eastwest: with all due respect to your opinion, which I mostly share, I will repeat my question to jongar: how is this relevant?
The Boeing/Airbus question borders on a religious war. If you guys want to discuss that, fine, but please start a thread that warns people that's what it's about.
I AM interested in the question of who is whose biggest customer. I'm not sure we really have a way of finding out.
Nuff said.
[This message has been edited by LexPassenger (edited 02-14-2001).]
The Boeing/Airbus question borders on a religious war. If you guys want to discuss that, fine, but please start a thread that warns people that's what it's about.
I AM interested in the question of who is whose biggest customer. I'm not sure we really have a way of finding out.
Nuff said.
[This message has been edited by LexPassenger (edited 02-14-2001).]
Feb 15, 2001 | 9:48 am
#14
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I don't think our E.U. readers realise that their governments and taxpaying compadres are subsisidizing other U.S. industries too. There are said to be at least 10,000 French hi-tech engineers in Silicon Valley alone. Assuming that the French government paid $50k each to educate them, France has subsidized the U.S. hi-tech industry with some $500,000,000! 
Feb 15, 2001 | 10:05 am
#15
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British Airways and Singapore in the past have been very loyal and big customers of Boeing but have recently started to buy from Airbus.
United is the world's largest airline and they do operate some A319's, with the rest being Boeings (and a few aging DC-10's). I wonder how many Boeing's United has in its fleet.
Boeing and Airbus both make good airplanes. It seems that Airbus will win the long-term war unless Boeing makes some changes. With the exception of the 777, all of Boeings planes are based upon designs from the 60's and 70's. They do have a flying wing on the idea board and it will be interesting if they will proceed with this new radical design.
EASTWIND: star wars defense shields are in reality just one big jobs program. No rouge nation or terroist group would go through the expense of firing a scud or ICBM at the US--it would be way to expensive. The most likely avenue would be to place either a bio/nuclear bomb aboard a container and explode it as the ship pulls into New York harbor. There is nothing out there that can stop this sort of attack.
[This message has been edited by Tango (edited 02-15-2001).]
United is the world's largest airline and they do operate some A319's, with the rest being Boeings (and a few aging DC-10's). I wonder how many Boeing's United has in its fleet.
Boeing and Airbus both make good airplanes. It seems that Airbus will win the long-term war unless Boeing makes some changes. With the exception of the 777, all of Boeings planes are based upon designs from the 60's and 70's. They do have a flying wing on the idea board and it will be interesting if they will proceed with this new radical design.
EASTWIND: star wars defense shields are in reality just one big jobs program. No rouge nation or terroist group would go through the expense of firing a scud or ICBM at the US--it would be way to expensive. The most likely avenue would be to place either a bio/nuclear bomb aboard a container and explode it as the ship pulls into New York harbor. There is nothing out there that can stop this sort of attack.
[This message has been edited by Tango (edited 02-15-2001).]