YVR Cockroach

The more-concerning news now is the NYT report of the FAA investigating a Boeing whistleblower's claim that the way that latter 787 fuselages are joined together (forcible, reportedly) could lead to the fuselage coming apart inflight. The 787 fuselage (and wing) is composite so think OceanGate submersible.

oreocookies

Back when the two Max plane crashes happened and I learned about the design of the plane and why it even needed MCAS in the first place, I noped out of ever flying on a Max. It seemed to me Boeing intentionally tried to game the system to cut costs, and everything about the design stemmed from their desire not have to re-train pilots. They wanted to create a new plane but dishonestly convince everyone it was the same thing, and all their bad design choices stemmed from that goal.

Now, it seems like all of Boeing's planes are a mess and there are constant headlines about problems and near-misses. Here's the thing: Is it just that people are paying more attention now and a Boeing issue is more likely to make headlines? Or Boeing really a mess? For people who really follow the industry, not just clickbait headlines, is it that bad? I'm at the point where I don't want to fly Boeing planes at all anymore.

nk15

Maybe we need to avoid the 787? Will the FAA do anything about this?

Boeing Falsified Records, Didn't Check To Ensure 787 Wings Were Properly Attached To Airframes

hiker67

While there is a lot of attention on Boeing, a problem with Pratt & Whitney engines is likely to ground more and more aircraft in the coming years:

"The work requires removing each engine from its wing, disassembling it to install replacement parts, reassembling it and testing it."

"Affected U.S. airlines with the jet engines include Delta, JetBlue, Spirit, Frontier Airlines and Hawaiian Airlines."

"On any given day in the coming three years, as many as 350 aircraft could be grounded globally for that work, according to estimates published last October by Cirium Aviation Analytics."

As Pratt & Whitney engine recall leads to $1.46B loss, an airline CEO hopes for 'no more surprises'
https://www.ctinsider.com/business/a...l-18625056.php

Annalisa12

Yes...a possible upcoming trip has one on the 737 Max. I think I will pay more to go on the A350

Wilbur

Take the time to watch this 20-minute analysis of Boeing's "Greed is Good" downfall, courtesy of the McDonnell Douglas merger, by Mentour.

Sheikh Yerbooty

It’s nothing to do with “luck”, and everything to do with Boeing management having the wrong priorities and being demonstrably incompetent at everything except financial trickery.

Davvidd

I do agree that Boeing is getting a lot more flak that they should as the biggest flak should be aimed at the FAA who is getting away scot-free. and all the blame being diverted to Boeing.
None of the reporters are asking ICAO as to why FAA has not been Audited by ICAO? Why are only small states audited by ICAO though this time the FAA is in much more trouble that anyone else has even been before?

moondog

Davvidd

I might have missed the context to which you're replying, but I'd argue that Boeing hiring, compensating, and (poorly) overseeing FAA line inspectors is mostly a Boeing problem.

While there are some obvious conflicts of interest at play here, this type of agency has been implemented more successfully in other contexts/industries, and makes sense in principle because it expands the reach of government agencies.

Davvidd

If the FAA has done and keep doing their oversight properly none of this would have happened for such a long time. The other industries do not have such an International uniformity as in ICAO. The FAA is very enthusiastic in auditing other national agencies of other States but when it comes to their own they turn a blind eye. Also why would it be a Boeing problem for FAA inspectors? It is an FAA issue strictly.

moondog

​​​​​​1. Healthcare, banking, insurance, energy, and pharmaceuticals all come to mind as industries with roughly equivalent international standards/oversight as aviation... imperfect systems with lots of self-policing

2. As I suggested, it shouldn't be a problem, but with Boeing feeding the people who attest to the quality of its workmanship, there was/is a conflict of interest. The EMA isn't all that different in this respect, at least structurally. I'm not trying to give the FAA a free pass here; I'm just pointing out an inherent problem in these sorts of government/industry relationships.

Davvidd

Healthcare, banking and insurance etc do not have an UN Agency like ICAO that has oversight functions over every State. ICAO can go into every State and demand all access because all of them have signed up to the Chicago Convention. It would be interesting to see what the next USOP audit of FAA would bring.

Sheikh Yerbooty

Boeing successfully lobbied for less direct oversight by their regulator, in favour of delegated authority whereby Boeing employees would assume the role of the regulator. As anybody could have told you, that didn’t work as intended and Boeing completely and utterly failed to live up to the responsibility they had lobbied to get. The FAA, through an act of congress, has pulled in the reins and - to the surprise of nobody - has found what everybody knew to be true. It’s fully in Boeing’s hands to demonstrate they are compliant with the regulations and production certificates. That they can’t do that when someone is actually checking them isn’t the fault of their regulator, but it does place a large and serious question mark on everything Boeing has self-certified.

The last ICAO USOAP audit of the United States was in 2007. For comparison, the last audit of the United Kingdom was in 2009 and Japan in 2010. It’s far from true that only “small states are audited by ICAO”; Australia, Brazil and Canada was audited in 2023, Italy in 2022 and Germany in 2021.

moondog

True, but those states can ignore them. I'm only being a little hyperbolic because, based on my past experiences with international law (e.g. TRIPs), the compliees(sp?) play a pretty important role wrt compliance. Back on the aviation topic, it wasn't long ago that we got to witness CAAC effectively close the MU5735 investigation after it had heard enough.

Davvidd

Yes they can but then what happens is ICAO put outs a siginifificant safety concern against at agency and all airlines operating to any airports they have authorized is suspect and so does all the arirlines certified by that country,