Stranded versus delayed
#16
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 52,575
I grew up in the 1970s. Most people never flew because flying was expensive. It boggles my mind that people think they should be able to have something just because it's there. I drive a 2005 Cadillac Deville. If I see someone driving a 2022 Cadillac Escalade my immediate thought isn't I'm owed that 2022 model.
ULCCs might be short on price but they're also often short on service. That $59 fare comes with strings attached. Want to fly better-better yourself and you will.
ULCCs might be short on price but they're also often short on service. That $59 fare comes with strings attached. Want to fly better-better yourself and you will.
We still expect the core product - the flight - to be delivered with the $59 fare.
#17
Join Date: Feb 2022
Programs: AAdvantage
Posts: 949
I would be with you if it were someone flying a ULCC and then going on an online rant about how the seat was small, there was no first class, there was no lounge, there was no food, and they had to pay for baggage. Those are the legitimate, advertised strings attached to the $59 fare.
We still expect the core product - the flight - to be delivered with the $59 fare.
We still expect the core product - the flight - to be delivered with the $59 fare.
#18
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: DFW
Programs: Non-Affiliated
Posts: 7,431
This reminds me of one of the rappers recently in the news. She claimed AA stranded her and her baby, as well as others (the rest?) of the plane at MIA, with no luggage. My first thought was that out of EVERYONE she was probably the least "stranded" as she had the resources to purchase a ticket, or anything she should need, plus likely had at least a person or handlers/assistants. And a label that probably would have gotten her on a private jet if she complained enough.
For me, stranded makes me think of accidentally being left totally alone on a cruise ship's private island or something with no other boats coming into port for a while.
For me, stranded makes me think of accidentally being left totally alone on a cruise ship's private island or something with no other boats coming into port for a while.
#19
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SEA (the REAL Washington); occasionally in the other Washington (DCA area)
Programs: DL PM 1.57MM; AS MVPG 100K
Posts: 21,375
I would be with you if it were someone flying a ULCC and then going on an online rant about how the seat was small, there was no first class, there was no lounge, there was no food, and they had to pay for baggage. Those are the legitimate, advertised strings attached to the $59 fare.
We still expect the core product - the flight - to be delivered with the $59 fare.
We still expect the core product - the flight - to be delivered with the $59 fare.
in real time, whether they consider themselves "stranded" or "delayed" is only peripherally relevant to how anyone else perceives both the situation and the reactions
This reminds me of one of the rappers recently in the news. She claimed AA stranded her and her baby, as well as others (the rest?) of the plane at MIA, with no luggage. My first thought was that out of EVERYONE she was probably the least "stranded" as she had the resources to purchase a ticket, or anything she should need, plus likely had at least a person or handlers/assistants. And a label that probably would have gotten her on a private jet if she complained enough.
For me, stranded makes me think of accidentally being left totally alone on a cruise ship's private island or something with no other boats coming into port for a while.
For me, stranded makes me think of accidentally being left totally alone on a cruise ship's private island or something with no other boats coming into port for a while.
#20
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 52,575
The fact that a complete absence of customer service and in some cases a complete absence of intent to even deliver the contracted service at all is considered a valid "business model" is a failure of our government to fulfill a basic consumer protection function.
again, anyone with a public persona is even better positioned than the average traveler to make a digital ruckus about how "the big bad airline treated me and my family/traveling party like dirt and I'm gonna make sure everyone knows about it! "
Although I will say this: AA failing to deliver and do right by its customers is totally believable given their current operational state. A celebrity throwing a hissyfit about not getting special treatment like a private lounge or F upgrades for their whole family or posse is also totally believable.
So whether this was an overentitled celeb or a real operational and customer service failure....I don't know....but in 2022 I'm more likely to believe the rapper than AA. That's the current state of U.S. airlines.
Last edited by pinniped; Apr 22, 2022 at 3:35 pm
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2008
Location: San Francisco
Programs: GM on VX, UA, AA, HA, AS, SY; Budget Fastbreak
Posts: 27,631
Canada's low-cost vacation airline Sunwing ran into a technical glitch yesterday and my news feeds were replete with sad tales of woe from travellers stranded in various locations. There was the usual fury directed at the airline, the whining about lack of communication and the teary-eyed pleas for an immediate solution.
I have no sympathy. The term "stranded" means to be stuck somewhere with no means of getting anywhere else. Unless socked in by weather and everything is grounded the only people who are "stranded" are those who aren't prepared for the occasional flight disruption. Sensible travellers therefore are never "stranded" but are merely "delayed."
I have no sympathy. The term "stranded" means to be stuck somewhere with no means of getting anywhere else. Unless socked in by weather and everything is grounded the only people who are "stranded" are those who aren't prepared for the occasional flight disruption. Sensible travellers therefore are never "stranded" but are merely "delayed."
i have zero empathy because I don’t fly ULCC and like others in ft, I can just buy a full fare flight to get home in order to reduce inconvenience or I can taxi to a money-burning hotel instead of awaiting a budget hotel voucher plus food vouchers plus shuttle voucher. I don’t know what it’s like to have used up my travel budget for the year. I’ve endured delayed luggage which taught me to carry extra clothing in my carryon during travel.
it’s not a pretty picture for most of these ULCC pax. I just hope that these IRROPS don’t impede their ability to fondly remember the other 7-14 days of their fabulous vacation. I’ve had my own flight issues for flights back home that I won’t forget since I also won’t forget all the joyful memories of trips. Ok. I will eventually forget since that’s normal for humans. :-)
but utter sympathy. Nobody likes IRROPS. That’s why we have FlyerTalk. And we all hate IRROPS in life, outside of travel.
Which news feeds exist that allow you to learn about Sunwings? Today is the first day that I’ve heard of it. I definitely don’t read any news feeds about travel outside of FlyerTalk and nytimes.
#23
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 52,575
(Serious question. I'm in a U.S. state without any clear guidance about travel insurance regulation and my homeowners and auto company, a brand I *somewhat* trust, does not sell it.)
#24
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: YVR
Programs: AC SE 2MM; UA MP Premier Silver; Marriott Bonvoy LT Titanium Elite; Radisson; Avis PC
Posts: 35,255
I thought this was standard across Can/USA.
#25
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 52,575
Definitely less common in the USA. I'm with USAA and Prudential for different types of insurance and neither offer it. I don't know about Allstate or State Farm.
Travel companies try to push it, usually with insurance firms that I have never had any relationship with and haven't ever researched. It's never clear to me how/where the insurance company is located/incorporated, regulated, or what the venue would be for any dispute.
Residents of bigger states, especially places like NY that have a pretty active consumer-protection function in the AG's office, may have clearer published guidelines on how to research and buy travel insurance from reputable firms. Just not a thing I've ever looked too far into.
I remember when I lived in the UK, some of their national, trusted insurance companies offered it. Most of my friends bought an annual policy, which was pretty affordable.
Travel companies try to push it, usually with insurance firms that I have never had any relationship with and haven't ever researched. It's never clear to me how/where the insurance company is located/incorporated, regulated, or what the venue would be for any dispute.
Residents of bigger states, especially places like NY that have a pretty active consumer-protection function in the AG's office, may have clearer published guidelines on how to research and buy travel insurance from reputable firms. Just not a thing I've ever looked too far into.
I remember when I lived in the UK, some of their national, trusted insurance companies offered it. Most of my friends bought an annual policy, which was pretty affordable.
#26
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: United Arab Emirates & Arizona, USA
Programs: UA MM/1P, EK Au, QR, TK, Marriott Life Ti, Hilton Dia, IC Dia, Hyatt Glob, Accor Pt, Shangri-La
Posts: 4,527
Or, for that matter, for anyone taking any trip via any means of transportation to be equipped to mitigate a bad-case scenario.
#27
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 19
I was stranded with 2 (albeit adult) children on 9/11, in London, during a long connection. The (in)famous British airline assumed no responsibility whatsoever. All would-be tourist services were price gouging the unfortunate who were stranded. I personally, boycotted that airline for 20 years, as a result, until i decided to let bygones be bygones. And then they pulled another zinger, and I was a full fare business class.
#28
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 6
This isn't oozing privilege. It is oozing common sense. It's about deferring consumption of non-essential goods and/or services until you can comfortably pay for them, vs. spending all of your immediately available assets on short term pleasures before you have built up your safety reserves to handle unexpected situations. That leads to the next issue: If you are flying a low cost carrier with infrequent service, and the conditions of carriage permit the carrier to cancel the flight with minimal obligation to get you to your destination, it might be a really good idea to buy travel insurance.
#29
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 52,575
This isn't oozing privilege. It is oozing common sense. It's about deferring consumption of non-essential goods and/or services until you can comfortably pay for them, vs. spending all of your immediately available assets on short term pleasures before you have built up your safety reserves to handle unexpected situations. That leads to the next issue: If you are flying a low cost carrier with infrequent service, and the conditions of carriage permit the carrier to cancel the flight with minimal obligation to get you to your destination, it might be a really good idea to buy travel insurance.
But there also needs to be a passenger bill of rights that prevents carriers from selling tickets with minimal obligations to actually deliver upon them. Whether they bill themselves as "low cost" or not.
The individual consumer here did nothing wrong - they just bought a product, one that was in many cases aggressively marketed by the corporation. The burden to deliver should be on the corporation, and there should be a regulatory function that ensures that, with severe penalties for those who don't. I definitely don't trust the corporations to regulate themselves, especially not a bunch as ethically challenged as airlines.
#30
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: RNO
Programs: AA/DL/UA
Posts: 10,779
This isn't oozing privilege. It is oozing common sense. It's about deferring consumption of non-essential goods and/or services until you can comfortably pay for them, vs. spending all of your immediately available assets on short term pleasures before you have built up your safety reserves to handle unexpected situations. That leads to the next issue: If you are flying a low cost carrier with infrequent service, and the conditions of carriage permit the carrier to cancel the flight with minimal obligation to get you to your destination, it might be a really good idea to buy travel insurance.