Why do many of these programs have points expiration?
#1
Original Poster


Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Boston
Posts: 249
Why do many of these programs have points expiration?
Why do many of these programs have points expiration? I would think the whole reason these corporations set up these marketing loyalty programs is to entice you to keep coming back, but nothing would upset a customer more than to have their hard earned points expire on them just because of inactivity. We don't like it, but probably expect that over time many programs are de-valued, but to have points vanish (expire) on you is shocking and likely upsetting. So why do these corporations have this in their policy? How does it make business sense? Is it very costly for them to maintain accounts on their servers?
I've had points/miles expire on me years ago, but I wasn't too bent of our shape as it was a small amount. Still I was shocked as I felt these points were sort of like money sitting in a bank, and then the "bank" decided to take my money simply because I wasn't active for 2 years.
I've had points/miles expire on me years ago, but I wasn't too bent of our shape as it was a small amount. Still I was shocked as I felt these points were sort of like money sitting in a bank, and then the "bank" decided to take my money simply because I wasn't active for 2 years.
#2


Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: next to HAM
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Posts: 974
Why do many of these programs have points expiration? I would think the whole reason these corporations set up these marketing loyalty programs is to entice you to keep coming back, but nothing would upset a customer more than to have their hard earned points expire on them just because of inactivity. We don't like it, but probably expect that over time many programs are de-valued, but to have points vanish (expire) on you is shocking and likely upsetting. So why do these corporations have this in their policy? How does it make business sense? Is it very costly for them to maintain accounts on their servers?
I've had points/miles expire on me years ago, but I wasn't too bent of our shape as it was a small amount. Still I was shocked as I felt these points were sort of like money sitting in a bank, and then the "bank" decided to take my money simply because I wasn't active for 2 years.
Last edited by PAX_fips; Apr 17, 2018 at 4:57 am
#3




Join Date: Sep 2015
Programs: LH SEN; BA Gold
Posts: 8,437
Why do many of these programs have points expiration? I would think the whole reason these corporations set up these marketing loyalty programs is to entice you to keep coming back, but nothing would upset a customer more than to have their hard earned points expire on them just because of inactivity

And if you find that upsetting check out the loyalty programs that have mileage expiring after a certain period irrespective of whether you had activity in your account or not. Miles of entry level members of miles & more (Lufthansa) expire after 36 months. Flying only once or 100 times doesn't change the outcome. Gaining status will save the miles though.
I've had points/miles expire on me years ago, but I wasn't too bent of our shape as it was a small amount. Still I was shocked as I felt these points were sort of like money sitting in a bank, and then the "bank" decided to take my money simply because I wasn't active for 2 years.
#5




Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: New England
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If someone don't generate enough activity to keep points active, then is that person really loyal? If someone isn't making the company any money in a reasonable amount of time, then they're not the company's target audience.
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist


Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: MEL CHC
Posts: 22,917
Why do many of these programs have points expiration? I would think the whole reason these corporations set up these marketing loyalty programs is to entice you to keep coming back, but nothing would upset a customer more than to have their hard earned points expire on them just because of inactivity. We don't like it, but probably expect that over time many programs are de-valued, but to have points vanish (expire) on you is shocking and likely upsetting. So why do these corporations have this in their policy? How does it make business sense? Is it very costly for them to maintain accounts on their servers?
I've had points/miles expire on me years ago, but I wasn't too bent of our shape as it was a small amount. Still I was shocked as I felt these points were sort of like money sitting in a bank, and then the "bank" decided to take my money simply because I wasn't active for 2 years.
I've had points/miles expire on me years ago, but I wasn't too bent of our shape as it was a small amount. Still I was shocked as I felt these points were sort of like money sitting in a bank, and then the "bank" decided to take my money simply because I wasn't active for 2 years.
Some loyalty programs have no expiry if you have an eligible activity within a defined time period. 1.5 years is common
Very few loyalty programs have no expiry.
Look here Miles/Points that Do and Don't Expire
#7
Original Poster


Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Boston
Posts: 249
In banking the money isn't gone, you just have to go through the hassle of claiming it.
#8
Original Poster


Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Boston
Posts: 249
What better way than to have your points expire! "Spend money with us or your points die!" 
And if you find that upsetting check out the loyalty programs that have mileage expiring after a certain period irrespective of whether you had activity in your account or not. Miles of entry level members of miles & more (Lufthansa) expire after 36 months. Flying only once or 100 times doesn't change the outcome. Gaining status will save the miles though.
As PAX_fips mentions, banks generally close inactive accounts after a certain period.

And if you find that upsetting check out the loyalty programs that have mileage expiring after a certain period irrespective of whether you had activity in your account or not. Miles of entry level members of miles & more (Lufthansa) expire after 36 months. Flying only once or 100 times doesn't change the outcome. Gaining status will save the miles though.
As PAX_fips mentions, banks generally close inactive accounts after a certain period.
Last edited by Magna; Apr 17, 2018 at 11:34 pm
#9
Original Poster


Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Boston
Posts: 249
I don't know what you mean by liabilities, in an accounting sense? If yes, aren't the cost of the points they give out built in to the price? Sort of like the price of most everything is increased by 3% to cover their costs of taking on credit cards.
#10
Original Poster


Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Boston
Posts: 249
I see that some programs are advertising that their points don't expire as a feature of their program. For the vast majority of people who don't want to be knowledgable experts in this game, it's safer to be loyal to those 'no expiration' programs.
#11




Join Date: Jun 2012
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The bean counters that run these programs probably don't see it your way. Also, I don't think very many people see the expiration as a deterrent, nor would it be a major factor in which company they choose. If someone has a career change later on that suddenly necessitates frequent travel, they would be starting from square one regardless of program.
People who don't patronize these businesses often enough to maintain the points, are most likely to book on price anyway. Even then, the expiration on the points are fairly generous. Anyone that cares enough about program benefits are most likely going to participate often enough anyway. If not, they'll simply go with whoever is the cheapest.
People who don't patronize these businesses often enough to maintain the points, are most likely to book on price anyway. Even then, the expiration on the points are fairly generous. Anyone that cares enough about program benefits are most likely going to participate often enough anyway. If not, they'll simply go with whoever is the cheapest.
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Jan 2005
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I looked over the miles/points expiration wiki, the policy of many programs is just have some, even one activity to keep your points alive which sounds reasonable to me. The hard expiration policy seems draconian to me. Are these programs giving away too many points and need a method to reclaim some?? Overall, I think these marketing programs are ingenious on their part..
But did you look at which programs have hard expiration? There's a big pattern!
For whatever reason, the hard expiration policy programs are in places like Asia, while with the exception of Choice Privileges (hotels) in the recent past (but no longer) and WyndhamRewards (hotels), there are no hard expiration programs based in North America or the UK.
So I'm presuming is has something to do with the local business culture in places like Asia, but since you don't live anywhere near Asia, how can you understand local business culture there (unless you do a lot of business there)?
Keep in mind that in many parts of the world (outside of North America and the UK), hardly anyone who doesn't travel a lot for business even bothers to join frequent flyer or frequent guest programs, and the companies who run the local programs there regard those programs as designed solely for frequent business travelers based in their area.
#13
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 456
You'd be amazed at how many millions of dollars in accounting liabilities there are in these programs. There are many reasons stated throughout this thread and they're pretty much all valid. Especially in the US for instance, pretty much ANY activity even if it's a tiny withdrawal to purchase an ebook or whatever, will keep your points alive. A co-branded credit card often helps with this. At the end of the day, if you can't even be bothered to do that, you're not very "loyal" in the first place, and the program isn't meant for people like you.
But at the end of the day, all expiration policies are tied to the bottom line, as in "the accounting sense". An actual accountant or finance person can correct me, but the way I understand it is that reducing "liabilities" by expiring points basically improves the balance sheet by making it look like you owe less money which improves credit, EBITDA, debt to revenue, stock prices, etc. etc. All things that are very important to investors and shareholders.
But at the end of the day, all expiration policies are tied to the bottom line, as in "the accounting sense". An actual accountant or finance person can correct me, but the way I understand it is that reducing "liabilities" by expiring points basically improves the balance sheet by making it look like you owe less money which improves credit, EBITDA, debt to revenue, stock prices, etc. etc. All things that are very important to investors and shareholders.
#14
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL
Posts: 3,359
But at the end of the day, all expiration policies are tied to the bottom line, as in "the accounting sense". An actual accountant or finance person can correct me, but the way I understand it is that reducing "liabilities" by expiring points basically improves the balance sheet by making it look like you owe less money which improves credit, EBITDA, debt to revenue, stock prices, etc. etc. All things that are very important to investors and shareholders.
Without expiration dates, all those accounts with a few thousand points/miles start to add up over the years. That's a bad thing because it introduces a level of uncertainty.
#15




Join Date: Jun 2012
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And that would probably lead to rampant devaluations if the non-expiration promoted excessive hoarding.

