ibrandsguest

If there are city pairs that can be served by an overnight train leaving at bedtime and arriving before the start of the workday, why isn't there more ridership (in sleeping cars)?

Amtrak has a few overnight trains left, and they do a good business; Amtrak is expanding its sleeping car fleet. However, there are plenty of trips that are potentially served by overnight trains, but aren't, or overnight trains that have a few sleeping cars on them but not as many as I'd think. European countries, I hear, are paring back their night trains.

I would think that leaving a city at 10pm and arriving at 7am would be ideal, particularly as hours during the workday would not be wasted. I take Amtrak overnight trains every now and then and find them comfortable and convenient (although expensive).

What gives? Is the US travel mindset just focused on flying? Or are night trains not as ideal as I think they are?

Scots_Al

Sleeper trains still run between Scotland and England (as well as plenty of other places in Europe). But don’t worry, you’re not missing much - the only way to actually get any sleep on them is to have a skinful beforehand!

Lost

The same two cities that I could leave on a train at 10pm and arrive at 7am I could fly out of at 10pm and arrive at 11pm, then sleep in a real bed.

84fiero

Some parts of the world still have a brisk business in sleeper trains, though they're not as prevalent as they once were due to competition from LCC/ULCC airlines and high-speed rail options. That's the key, really - the price point has to be such that it's a better deal for many people than a faster plane ride + hotel night. In some areas of the world sleepers are often still a better value than the plane + hotel combo. Certain routes have different levels of sleepers, from open bunks in a communal area all the way to private first class compartments - with pricing reflecting each level.

And especially for tourists, there can be a time savings taking a late evening train departure and arriving in the next destination in the morning. This is compared to flying where even a short flight of maybe a couple of hours, still can entail a half day of time when you add transport time to the airport (often outside the city center), waiting time at the airport, etc. That's a half day of sight-seeing or activity that you're giving up.

But ULCCs and high-speed trains are putting a dent in the slower-speed overnight trains, as the coverage and costs for the former improve.

I think there is a cultural mindset in modern America focused on flying and driving, and a general disdain for practical long-term planning in the public sphere. Just look at the mockery any sort of high speed train concept seems to get here. Amtrak (which I love to ride on in sleepers) is complicated by under-investment and usage of freight tracks...the high cost and slow speeds aren't appealing to most folks. Airlines tend to lobby against rail options, too. Air and car travel have usually been fairly affordable in more recent times so I guess most people don't think about alternatives.

If (a big "if") there is ever going to be better and more widespread rail in the US - sleeper, high speed, etc. - I think it will take a generation or two for it to come into place.

GUWonder

Sleeper trains still run within Europe. In some places for some people they are the perfect way to take a ski trip as it may even save a night or two of lodging costs and minimize having to take vacation days for travel time while maximizing ski slope time during the days off.

darthbimmer

One of my sisters has discovered the comfort of traveling via sleeping cabin on trains. But she has to take the train; her daughter has a medical condition that makes air travel risky. Aside from such cases I agree with Lost. I think most people would rather take a short flight than an overnight train.

Palal

In the EU, overnight trains have been decimated by LCCs. Demand has been going down year after year, resulting in elimination of many routes that fail to make a profit. The only place where you'll find them is Eastern Europe (Ukraine, Russia, Belarus, etc.) where they're still the primary way of intercity travel.

The first couple of chapters of this recent study provides some insights on conventional night trains.

KDS777

Last time I saw a reference to sleeper service on a passenger train it was in a history book. Maybe that's why ?

Scots_Al

WorldLux

Or sleep and take an early flight. I really don't see a reason to use an overnight train if there is flight. A train does ~100 mph and can barely cover 900 miles in that time frame. It takes a plane 2 hours to cover that kind of distance.

GUWonder

rickg523

I've just been working on a trip plan to the Central European and Balkan capitals using trains as the primary mode.
I find that there is still night train service between Munich (my planned entry to Europe) and Budapest or between Prague and Budapest. Fairly reasonable pricing. But definitely, per the OP, underutilized. Many departures only carry one or two sleeping cars and many travelers report that tickets are obtainable on the night of travel.

arkellvspressdram

I've had excellent nights sleep on the sleeper to Inverness, across Vietnam and across Thailand. That train noise really helps...tho a skinful never hurts.

I've dined on the orient express and I think you'd sleep pretty well on that too but by gum you'd pay for it...actually just had a peek and I think I'd get my head down quite happily in one of these

https://www.belmond.com/trains/europ.../accommodation

Allan38103

Why not take AMTRAK more often than "every now and then"? The OP has answered his own question.

Badenoch

There is a sleeper car on Via Rail's "Canadian."

Toronto-Vancouver train - Classes and train cars | VIA Rail