Would this be illegal?
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4
Would this be illegal?
Sorry if this isn't the right forum for this, feel free to move if it's not.
So I'm buying a "hacker fare" to get from Pittsburgh to Chicago. To go from Pittsburgh to Chicago direct is $134. But from Pittsburgh to Miami with a layover in Chicago is $69. So I'm going to book that flight and then get off on my layover and just leave. Of course I'll only have a carry-on bag so I don't lose any of my luggage.
So far I'm okay, as people frequently do this. BUT, here's the thing. I now have a one way ticket from Chicago to Miami that's being unused. Could I give this ticket to a friend to use? What we would do is this. My friend buys a refundable ticket to wherever to get through security. He then cancels that flight and I hand him the ORD -> MIA portion of my ticket. Since they don't check ID's when boarding planes, he can simply take my ticket and go to MIA while I exit ORD and go home.
So it seems like this would definitely be doable, but would it be illegal?
So I'm buying a "hacker fare" to get from Pittsburgh to Chicago. To go from Pittsburgh to Chicago direct is $134. But from Pittsburgh to Miami with a layover in Chicago is $69. So I'm going to book that flight and then get off on my layover and just leave. Of course I'll only have a carry-on bag so I don't lose any of my luggage.
So far I'm okay, as people frequently do this. BUT, here's the thing. I now have a one way ticket from Chicago to Miami that's being unused. Could I give this ticket to a friend to use? What we would do is this. My friend buys a refundable ticket to wherever to get through security. He then cancels that flight and I hand him the ORD -> MIA portion of my ticket. Since they don't check ID's when boarding planes, he can simply take my ticket and go to MIA while I exit ORD and go home.
So it seems like this would definitely be doable, but would it be illegal?
#2


Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Happily living in Frenaros Cyprus having escaped the near-death experience called Sofia Bulgaria
Programs: Etihad Guest Gold, DL FO and 1MM, and a bunch of others at a low level
Posts: 2,060
The name on the ticket must match the passenger's name. Not only will you and your friend get in big trouble with the airline if caught (you are violating the terms of carriage), but TSA could cause serious problems for your friend if he got caught. And while TSA normally does not check IDs when getting on a plane, there is the occasional TSA gate check. You and your friend would be taking a huge risk for a small amount of money.
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: May 1998
Location: Massachusetts, USA; AA 2.996MM & Plat Pro, DL 1MM, GM & Flying Colonel
Posts: 25,036
That's a real risk, especially this time of year. Chicago often has weather problems that won't affect a non-stop flight from PIT to MIA, or flights via other hubs (e.g., Atlanta) in a southeasterly direction. Whoever sold you the ticket promised to get you to Miami, not to let you walk around O'Hare for a while. It can cost you a lot more to get back to Chicago from Miami, or from any other connection point, at the last minute than you save via this method - to say nothing of how many hours you'd waste in the process.
#5
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend




Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 46,303
#7
Suspended
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Watchlisted by the prejudiced, en route to purgatory
Programs: Just Say No to Fleecing and Blacklisting
Posts: 102,077
Sorry if this isn't the right forum for this, feel free to move if it's not.
So I'm buying a "hacker fare" to get from Pittsburgh to Chicago. To go from Pittsburgh to Chicago direct is $134. But from Pittsburgh to Miami with a layover in Chicago is $69. So I'm going to book that flight and then get off on my layover and just leave. Of course I'll only have a carry-on bag so I don't lose any of my luggage.
So far I'm okay, as people frequently do this. BUT, here's the thing. I now have a one way ticket from Chicago to Miami that's being unused. Could I give this ticket to a friend to use? What we would do is this. My friend buys a refundable ticket to wherever to get through security. He then cancels that flight and I hand him the ORD -> MIA portion of my ticket. Since they don't check ID's when boarding planes, he can simply take my ticket and go to MIA while I exit ORD and go home.
So it seems like this would definitely be doable, but would it be illegal?
So I'm buying a "hacker fare" to get from Pittsburgh to Chicago. To go from Pittsburgh to Chicago direct is $134. But from Pittsburgh to Miami with a layover in Chicago is $69. So I'm going to book that flight and then get off on my layover and just leave. Of course I'll only have a carry-on bag so I don't lose any of my luggage.
So far I'm okay, as people frequently do this. BUT, here's the thing. I now have a one way ticket from Chicago to Miami that's being unused. Could I give this ticket to a friend to use? What we would do is this. My friend buys a refundable ticket to wherever to get through security. He then cancels that flight and I hand him the ORD -> MIA portion of my ticket. Since they don't check ID's when boarding planes, he can simply take my ticket and go to MIA while I exit ORD and go home.
So it seems like this would definitely be doable, but would it be illegal?
#8
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend




Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 46,303
Yes. This type of stuff clearly violates airline contracts, but I'm curious about which laws are transgressed. We've discussed this extensively wrt hidden cities in isolation, but this is the first thread I've seen mentioning a switcheroo at the connecting point. I couldn't imagine tempting these waters myself, but I'm not familiar enough with relevant legislation to declare the OP's plan illegal.
#9
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,253
Your question is, "is this illegal?" The answer is, yes.
It is a felony violation for your friend to present himself as you to board an aircraft at ORD.
There may be a series of discussions about what the chances are of you being caught and what would happen if either of you are caught, but the answer is yes.
Anything further is a violation of FT's terms on giving advice on violating the law.
It is a felony violation for your friend to present himself as you to board an aircraft at ORD.
There may be a series of discussions about what the chances are of you being caught and what would happen if either of you are caught, but the answer is yes.
Anything further is a violation of FT's terms on giving advice on violating the law.
#12




Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: AVL
Programs: DL DM 2MM; Hilton Diamond; Hertz PC
Posts: 719
The issue is the Secure Flight protocols. The airline won't like it and that might violate civil law but, with the exception of a potential fraud claim, it isn't a criminal violation.
But what is a criminal violation are the anti-terrorism rules. Secure Flight exists to ensure that those on the Do Not Fly list do in fact not fly. Your situation is not intended to circumvent the purpose of Secure Flight but, in order to prosecute those would would attempt to circumvent the purpose for secure flight, the behavior is criminalized.
That's not to say that it doesn't happen - it does and people get away with it. But that's the same argument for being a drug mule. You should think carefully about what is at stake and the potential repercussions if you get caught before you decide to take your chances. I once heard a (successful) career criminal say that he never stole anything that wasn't worth the risk to steal.
But what is a criminal violation are the anti-terrorism rules. Secure Flight exists to ensure that those on the Do Not Fly list do in fact not fly. Your situation is not intended to circumvent the purpose of Secure Flight but, in order to prosecute those would would attempt to circumvent the purpose for secure flight, the behavior is criminalized.
That's not to say that it doesn't happen - it does and people get away with it. But that's the same argument for being a drug mule. You should think carefully about what is at stake and the potential repercussions if you get caught before you decide to take your chances. I once heard a (successful) career criminal say that he never stole anything that wasn't worth the risk to steal.
#13
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend




Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: MCI
Programs: AA Gold 1MM, AS MVP, UA Silver, WN A-List, Marriott LT Titanium, HH Diamond
Posts: 53,010
At first I thought we were going to have yet another discussion about the ethics of hidden city ticketing vs. the ethics of fortress hub pricing...
...but this is outright illegal. For both of you. Completely not worth the risk.
...but this is outright illegal. For both of you. Completely not worth the risk.
#15
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4
Btw, this is more of a theoretical exercise than something I actually plan on doing. I mean, the first part I do actually plan on doing. The second half, giving somebody else my ticket, was just something that occurred to me as a hypothetical situation. But it's not something I'd actually do even if it were legal (as it's too much effort for too small a payoff). It's just a thought experiment




