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Old Jun 28, 2016, 7:48 am
  #16  
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A lot depends on what type of lounge and how you obtain access. If this is a "real" lounge, e.g., an "international premium" lounge where you gain access through a paid F/J ticket or status and you purchase a full F ticket so that you can access the F lounge, that is one scenario. Another is purchasing a refundable domestic ticket to get through the check point to access your paid domestic UC or the like lounge just because you can't be bothered to wait at a counter for a gate pass.

There are two issues. One is inventory spoilage, e.g., the theft of services fraud inherent when you purchase a ticket which you do not intend to fly at the time you purchase the ticket and the other is the real cost of lounge access.

This is far from an ethical issue. It is theft/fraud however you want to dress it up and while it is unlikely in the extreme that you will be pursued and prosecuted for it, that does not change the fact that, at least in the US, it is. The fact that you won't likely be prosecuted does not make it not a crime.

But, carriers do care. A lot. And they monitor patterns and spend a small fortune on sophisticated software. Close-in purchases of F tickets which are then cancelled after lounge access on a regular basis are a good sign of fraud. Linked to false names, but CC's in the same name, same IP address and so on, it can be quite hard to build a truly false identity.

If the passenger is a FFP member, the easiest is to simply fire him. While it was not over lounge access, the recent UA thread over the GS who routinely cancelled F tickets at the gate and had his GS status cancelled and his MP account closed is a good cautionary example. UA legitimately determined that someone who routinely cancels at the gate had no intent to fly the ticket in the first place and that the passenger was a fraud. Sue him? Refer him to authorities for prosecution? Heck no. Why bother? Just shut him down.

Not quite fired, but it's a long way from GS to nothing.
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Old Jun 28, 2016, 7:53 am
  #17  
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I don't have a link but I know LH sued someone who was buying tickets just for lounge access and then cancelling the ticket. And they won.
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Old Jun 28, 2016, 8:10 am
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Originally Posted by wrp96
I don't have a link but I know LH sued someone who was buying tickets just for lounge access and then cancelling the ticket. And they won.

Lufthansa Charges Traveler $2,700 For Grossly Abusing Lounge Access
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Old Jun 28, 2016, 8:11 am
  #19  
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If you're doing it repeatedly, they will catch you. Modern data analytics are pretty powerful.

If you're thinking about doing it once, just buy a damn daypass. Lounge access in 2016 is cheap unless you're talking about the best international F lounges. And if you're willing to tie up thousands of dollars on a credit card to get into one of those, then I don't have an answer for you. I personally think it's unethical. I'd feel like a total d-bag doing it.
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Old Jun 28, 2016, 6:33 pm
  #20  
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Or just take a day room at an adjacent hotel.
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Old Jun 28, 2016, 10:34 pm
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Originally Posted by Non-NonRev
Or just take a day room at an adjacent hotel.
Which day room sports gallons of free hard spirits?
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Old Jun 28, 2016, 11:00 pm
  #22  
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Find a nice airport bar, landside or airside.
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Old Jun 28, 2016, 11:25 pm
  #23  
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I personally have no qualms at all about tying up $5,000 in credit for a few weeks. It's the OP's fraudulent intentions that disturb me.
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Old Jun 29, 2016, 2:09 am
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Originally Posted by moondog
..It's the OP's fraudulent intentions that disturb me.
I think it is the exposure to airlines and their manners and business dealings that 'upgrades' ordinary decent travellers into minor thugs.
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Old Jun 29, 2016, 7:11 am
  #25  
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Originally Posted by weero
I think it is the exposure to airlines and their manners and business dealings that 'upgrades' ordinary decent travellers into minor thugs.
I think there are some cases where this line of reasoning makes sense. They impose progressively-less-fair rules and fees, so we look for loopholes, hacks, and workarounds. If the "thing" we're trying to get is something we actually did at one point have as an included part of travel, I can see why people pursue it. I agree that the airlines have made this an adversarial us vs. them relationship, not a bilateral business partnership.

But using this method to get into lounges? That's in a different territory. It isn't like we can argue that long ago, they let us in for free and have since taken away a benefit. If anything they've made it a lot easier to legitimately enter the lounge. Using refundable tickets to get in (knowing you're going to cancel them) feels wrong in any era, on any airline.
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Old Jun 29, 2016, 7:27 am
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Similar to the OP's post:

Fans of various celebrities are typically waiting after baggage claim or before security lines to seek autographs and selfies with their favorite stars--that's been going on forever. Recently I was surprised to see people who had cleared TSA stalk celebs all the way to the lounges. Apparently they buy tickets to throw away/or refundable tickets to increase access.

Doesn't this throw some monkey wrenches into flying, as far as capacity and seating issues, etc? Plus ethics...it feels pretty fraudulent, although I guess it could be worse-they could buy up to access to the lounges.

Last edited by retiredsw; Jun 29, 2016 at 7:28 am Reason: spacing
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Old Jun 29, 2016, 7:49 am
  #27  
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How often does a celeb popular enough to attract that kind of crowd actually have to fly commercial? I guess out of the main TPAC hubs on the West Coast...flights beyond the range of most private jets...??

When we get a significant celebrity in Kansas City, they land at the downtown airport (MKC). I've driven by there and seen fans gathered there along a fence, 50 yards or so from where the jets park, when someone especially "big" is flying in for a concert or whatever.
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Old Jun 29, 2016, 10:10 am
  #28  
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There was an incident at SIN where some fans went airside, through passport control, and in the process violated Singaporean law because they didn't intend to fly at the time (perhaps the next day, where SIN allows passengers not taking USA carriers to the USA to check in and go airside up to 48 hours before departure).
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Old Jun 29, 2016, 10:20 am
  #29  
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Ah...makes sense... Reference to TSA made me think this was happening domestically. I guess you'd maybe see a lot of B-listers flying commercial out of various LA airports??

I once saw Howard Stern at an airport bar at BWI. Been 15 years or so...I was surprised to see him flying commercial (and in the WN area of BWI, no less) even back then. I've also seen various athletes (mostly retired) flying commercial, usually with no one disturbing them at all. Sat across the aisle from Warren Moon once. Sat behind Rex Ryan once. (No, I didn't pop a bare foot up onto his armrest... )
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Old Jun 29, 2016, 10:24 am
  #30  
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Originally Posted by pinniped
I think there are some cases where this line of reasoning makes sense. They impose progressively-less-fair rules and fees, so we look for loopholes, hacks, and workarounds. If the "thing" we're trying to get is something we actually did at one point have as an included part of travel, I can see why people pursue it. I agree that the airlines have made this an adversarial us vs. them relationship, not a bilateral business partnership.

But using this method to get into lounges? That's in a different territory. It isn't like we can argue that long ago, they let us in for free and have since taken away a benefit. If anything they've made it a lot easier to legitimately enter the lounge. Using refundable tickets to get in (knowing you're going to cancel them) feels wrong in any era, on any airline.
On the other hand:

1. Cutbacks in onboard meal service are a reduction in benefits. Getting food from a lounge is one way to restore some of that benefit.

2. Increases in aircraft capacity and load factors, combined with fixed gate area seating, are a reduction in benefits (adequate seating). Getting a lounge seat is one way to restore that benefit.

3. Increased use of mobile devices, combined with fixed gate area outlets, is a reduction in benefits (ability to charge one's device). Charging it in a lounge with sufficient outlets to meet demand is one way to restore that benefit.

I'm sure people can think of more.
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