flight attendants out of control?
#31

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: California
Programs: DeltaGold/MM, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 493
If OP has any good statistics on the # of security incidents resulting in off-loading, it would be great if he posted them. Otherwise, this is just another media hype incident which seems pretty clear:
1. Must obey crewmember instructions.
2. Don't film or record crew members onboard (not only a safety & security issue, but there are plenty of whacko stalkers out there).
Seems like protocol was followed and this wasn't the FA's ultimate decision. Captain and law enforcement involved. While it's the Captain's final judgment, he apparently took advice from the cops too. Sounds like the decision to boot the other 8 had nothing to do with the FA.
The "animals" comment is uncalled for an unprofessional, but it has nothing to do with the security issues. Can't say the FA was wrong, just unprofessional.
Unlike a bus, you can't pull over to the curb at 35,000 feet and give someone the boot. Peoples' behavior tends not to improve with the passage of time.
1. Must obey crewmember instructions.
2. Don't film or record crew members onboard (not only a safety & security issue, but there are plenty of whacko stalkers out there).
Seems like protocol was followed and this wasn't the FA's ultimate decision. Captain and law enforcement involved. While it's the Captain's final judgment, he apparently took advice from the cops too. Sounds like the decision to boot the other 8 had nothing to do with the FA.
The "animals" comment is uncalled for an unprofessional, but it has nothing to do with the security issues. Can't say the FA was wrong, just unprofessional.
Unlike a bus, you can't pull over to the curb at 35,000 feet and give someone the boot. Peoples' behavior tends not to improve with the passage of time.
#32

Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 94
People who have underpaid, semi-skilled service jobs requiring constant interaction with the general public are going to occasionally resort to power-tripping when they can get away with it. Imagine if terrestrial waitresses or bartenders were suddenly authorized by the U.S. government to eject patrons from their restaurant according to their discretion about safety risks posed to other patrons. Arbitrary restaurant ejections of drunks, loud and unruly and entitled families, and the moderately argumentative would immediately become a media theme because controversy / inflamed tempers / familiar grievances -> hits.
I haven't flown outside of business or first for at least a decade and like everyone else I get frustrated and annoyed by airports. But I can't even imagine (remember?) how a person who agonizes over a $25 checked baggage fee must feel about boarding last, or how dehumanizing it must be for a FA to enforce baggage gate checks on angry travelers with so little at stake. The opposing incentives and psychic friction are only accelerating as commercial aviation sector economics turns FAs into food and beverage salespeople and baggage police.
To properly answer the OP, yes, this is clearly getting covered more and further proof that there are no professional consequences emboldens more FAs to take out their (understandable) bad moods on people they just happen not to like. The truly bad actors from both groups (passengers, FAs) provide cover for these probably-avoidable escalations to end with police reports. It probably only ends at mood-detecting Robot FAs equipped with laughing gas and tranquilizer darts.
I haven't flown outside of business or first for at least a decade and like everyone else I get frustrated and annoyed by airports. But I can't even imagine (remember?) how a person who agonizes over a $25 checked baggage fee must feel about boarding last, or how dehumanizing it must be for a FA to enforce baggage gate checks on angry travelers with so little at stake. The opposing incentives and psychic friction are only accelerating as commercial aviation sector economics turns FAs into food and beverage salespeople and baggage police.
To properly answer the OP, yes, this is clearly getting covered more and further proof that there are no professional consequences emboldens more FAs to take out their (understandable) bad moods on people they just happen not to like. The truly bad actors from both groups (passengers, FAs) provide cover for these probably-avoidable escalations to end with police reports. It probably only ends at mood-detecting Robot FAs equipped with laughing gas and tranquilizer darts.
#33
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: EK - Silver; Accor - Silver; O6 - Gold; BAEC - Silver; Flying Blue; SPG; Krisflyer
Posts: 506
Hence short of obvious interference (i.e. setting fire, smoking, cause hurt, damage equipment, etc.), it's very difficult to use this clause.
I'm not saying who's right here (unless more witness come forth). Just how terms of contract are interpreted (crap I need a vacation, been reading too many contacts).
#34




Join Date: Mar 2014
Posts: 1,783
In this case, the passenger should have just moved to let other people board. It's common courtesy and yes you have to follow directions of the FA. The good story is that maybe the kids in the family will learn that if you're a (*&^, you lose some of your vacation.
#35

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Programs: AA EXP...couple hotels and cars too
Posts: 4,549
People who have underpaid, semi-skilled service jobs requiring constant interaction with the general public are going to occasionally resort to power-tripping when they can get away with it. Imagine if terrestrial waitresses or bartenders were suddenly authorized by the U.S. government to eject patrons from their restaurant according to their discretion about safety risks posed to other patrons. Arbitrary restaurant ejections of drunks, loud and unruly and entitled families, and the moderately argumentative would immediately become a media theme because controversy / inflamed tempers / familiar grievances -> hits.
I haven't flown outside of business or first for at least a decade and like everyone else I get frustrated and annoyed by airports. But I can't even imagine (remember?) how a person who agonizes over a $25 checked baggage fee must feel about boarding last, or how dehumanizing it must be for a FA to enforce baggage gate checks on angry travelers with so little at stake. The opposing incentives and psychic friction are only accelerating as commercial aviation sector economics turns FAs into food and beverage salespeople and baggage police.
To properly answer the OP, yes, this is clearly getting covered more and further proof that there are no professional consequences emboldens more FAs to take out their (understandable) bad moods on people they just happen not to like. The truly bad actors from both groups (passengers, FAs) provide cover for these probably-avoidable escalations to end with police reports. It probably only ends at mood-detecting Robot FAs equipped with laughing gas and tranquilizer darts.
I haven't flown outside of business or first for at least a decade and like everyone else I get frustrated and annoyed by airports. But I can't even imagine (remember?) how a person who agonizes over a $25 checked baggage fee must feel about boarding last, or how dehumanizing it must be for a FA to enforce baggage gate checks on angry travelers with so little at stake. The opposing incentives and psychic friction are only accelerating as commercial aviation sector economics turns FAs into food and beverage salespeople and baggage police.
To properly answer the OP, yes, this is clearly getting covered more and further proof that there are no professional consequences emboldens more FAs to take out their (understandable) bad moods on people they just happen not to like. The truly bad actors from both groups (passengers, FAs) provide cover for these probably-avoidable escalations to end with police reports. It probably only ends at mood-detecting Robot FAs equipped with laughing gas and tranquilizer darts.
#36
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 26,417
Basically, FA's based in the US are the worst in the business. They are rude, act like they are performing brain surgery, and they look so unhappy one would assume they are going through labor if they weren't performing their duties.
On the international airlines I've flown, I've had nothing but friendly and courteous FA's, not to mention the fact that they dress like women and appear to have seen the inside of a gym recently.
On the international airlines I've flown, I've had nothing but friendly and courteous FA's, not to mention the fact that they dress like women and appear to have seen the inside of a gym recently.
http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2015/1...m/?intcmp=hpff
#37
Suspended
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 3,790
While I've certainly had rude FA's before, I've never had an "incident" with one, nor do I plan on having one. That being said, some of the above posters are correct, the issue is with US FA's. Other than isolated cases there is no "big problems" with FA's in any other country. Many seem to deal with getting out of their duties by using the "only here for your safety" or even the "9/11" excuses.
#38
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: BOI, et. al
Programs: UA Premier 1k, Marriott Platinum Elite, Star Alliance Gold, SPG Platinum, Yelp Elite
Posts: 219
Strangely enough, these apply to ground crew or anybody who has responsibility for the safety of the airline, even as a check on each other. I used to keep a copy of our state's law in the pilot lounge because we had too many incidents of stressed out cargo pilots trying to cut corners.
Also, gotta say, the converse is true as well, just because you express skepticism about something doesn't mean it's not true.
#39
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: BOI, et. al
Programs: UA Premier 1k, Marriott Platinum Elite, Star Alliance Gold, SPG Platinum, Yelp Elite
Posts: 219
While I've certainly had rude FA's before, I've never had an "incident" with one, nor do I plan on having one. That being said, some of the above posters are correct, the issue is with US FA's. Other than isolated cases there is no "big problems" with FA's in any other country. Many seem to deal with getting out of their duties by using the "only here for your safety" or even the "9/11" excuses.
#40

Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: NYC
Posts: 94
Agreed, the only time I've had problems with an FA, it was exactly one person, but it was multiple times. The last time, she tried to kick me off the plane. That earned one of United's regionals an FAA complaint and a whole lot of oversight they didn't want on pre-takeoff procedures. I can't say that will usually be the result of an FAA complaint, but given I used to be a consultant to the FAA on safety procedures, she chose the wrong person to argue policy with.
#41
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 8,460
Bottomline is that whoever trains the Emirates FA's should be hired to come to the US and train all the FA's here. Shape up or ship out should be the motto. Guaranteed all these American FA posers will be out on their fat lazy behinds within a month.
#43
Suspended
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 8,460
2) You're citing an airline called Niki? You may as well use the German Wings crash as evidence why it's no longer safe to fly.
#44

Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: California
Programs: AA EXP...couple hotels and cars too
Posts: 4,549
Inquiring minds wanted to know...
Im guessing this:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/pract...yes-again.html
Im guessing this:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/pract...yes-again.html
#45
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: CDG
Posts: 205
Basically, FA's based in the US are the worst in the business. They are rude, act like they are performing brain surgery, and they look so unhappy one would assume they are going through labor if they weren't performing their duties.
On the international airlines I've flown, I've had nothing but friendly and courteous FA's, not to mention the fact that they dress like women and appear to have seen the inside of a gym recently.
On the international airlines I've flown, I've had nothing but friendly and courteous FA's, not to mention the fact that they dress like women and appear to have seen the inside of a gym recently.
http://www.foxnews.com/travel/2015/1...m/?intcmp=hpff
3 million people fly everyday without incident; we get reports like this maybe once per day. I would say, almost without exception, by simple logic, that there is a good reason to toss them. If it was simply crews on power trips, there would be a whole lot more people being tossed.
I'd sure wish to see stats on the matter: US/non-US and pre-9.11/post-9.11..

