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Held by security for hours / missed flights

Held by security for hours / missed flights

Old Sep 5, 2015, 11:23 am
  #1  
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Held by security for hours / missed flights

Hi guys,

Long time reader, new poster. Moderators: If I've posted in the wrong section, please feel free to relocate this to the correct one.

My wife and I just spent 3+ weeks in Europe on an amazing honeymoon that started in Italy and took us through Switzerland, France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Germany and Finland. Thanks to everything we learned reading through this forum, we ended up with first class tickets and 5 star hotels for a steal.

The trip was our "trip of a lifetime" and everything went almost flawlessly until we entered Helsinki-Vantaa airport in Finland to catch our flight home to the US.

We arrived almost 3 hours before our morning flight was boarding at the airport, checked in/dropped off our luggage. Proceeded through security and were headed closer to our gate to grab some breakfast (this was before 7am). Before we could get to our gate area, we had to enter through passport control. Both of us were traveling with US Passports (I was originally born in Finland, but have been a US Citizen for years and never travel with my EU Passport), therefore we had to enter the "All Passports" queue.

What I expected to be a quick-glance at the passport was definitely not. A line of 6 people took 15 minutes to get through, and I listened in on the lady in front of us. Like me, she was traveling with a US Passport but had been born in Finland. The Passport Control/Border Protection officer had a strong attitude with her, questioning why she did not have her Finnish Passport - she explained that she had given it up and after several minutes of looking at his computer screen, he later her go. My wife was next and his attitude continued, first asking her how long she had been in Finland (almost as if he had caught her being there illegally) - she answered that we had gotten there 4 days before. As he flipped through every page in her passport, she added that we had entered Europe through Italy on the 10th on August. He did not seem to believe her, motioning that there was nothing in her passport and went through each page again until he found the stamp. Next he spent a few minutes on the computer, and finally let her go.

I was next and when the officer saw that my name was a Finnish one, he asked me where my Finnish Passport was. I explained that I did not travel with it since I was a US Citizen. He asked some more questions and stated that his database only showed that I was a Finnish citizen and told me he would take me to the Border Protection office as they would need to investigate this. When he realized that my wife was my wife (she was waiting on the other side), he also took her to the office.

In the end, we were held for hours (til 3pm) while they investigated this matter and missed our flights - they admitted they had made a mistake (the US Embassy had gotten involved). The Border Protection/Finnish Government, nor our airline (Norwegian), would rebook/reimburse us for our flights.

Norwegian had no flights out for 2 days - we ended up leaving the airport and grabbing a room for the night to figure out the best approach (last minute room was not cheap, nor were the taxi fares back and forth from the airport). Just wanting to get back home, we booked flights with British Airways for the next morning and got home earlier this week (we did get stopped by Border Protection again leaving the airport and nearly missed our BA flights, they wanted to investigate why we had been stopped the day before - what a joke).

We did purchase trip insurance in advance, however it seems that their policy will not cover delays/interruptions because of customs/security/government situations.

I just wanted to see if anyone had any similar experiences or advice. Besides being very upset with the Finnish Government, I am disappointed with Norwegian for their complete lack of assistance and attempts to sell us higher priced fairs when we needed help.

I know EU Regulations cover delayed/cancelled flights, but is there anything that touches on situations such as these?

Thank you in advance,
J.
uniquesituation is offline  
Old Sep 5, 2015, 1:13 pm
  #2  
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I know the US requires you to enter on your US passport if you have one. Does Finland have a similar rule that you fell afoul of?
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Old Sep 5, 2015, 1:29 pm
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Held by security for hours / missed flights

Sorry to hear about troubles. But surely you have seen all of the flyertalk discussions about how useless Norwegian is even when they cancel their own flights?
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Old Sep 5, 2015, 1:34 pm
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Held by security for hours / missed flights

Lots of complaints. helpful to tease them out.

1) The line moved slowly before you were called. Such is life
2) There was an issue with your documentation and the computer system that took a long time to sort out and you missed your flight. That sucks.

But Norwegian did nothing wrong here. You chose to fly on a budget carrier with infrequent service. Norwegian didn't control the Finnish border crossing. If you wanted flexibility on a ticket, don't fly Norwegian. Flexibility costs money. (Not that any other airline would be on the hook either.)
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Old Sep 5, 2015, 2:13 pm
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Thanks for the replies. To answer a few questions:

Finland having a rule on entering with a Finnish Passport: not that I'm aware of. When I became a US Citizen I took the Oath of Allegiance (to give up all other ties and citizenships), I've been working with the Finnish government to take the necessary steps to drop my Finnish citizenship (for the last 2 years - each time they require something more).

Norwegian: the only reason we flew Norwegian was because I wanted to experience the 787 (have not had a chance to fly on yet). I have not seen the discussions regarding their cancellations on here, but will check them out.

Adam1222: I really don't care about the line moving slow, my point was that they were almost harassing citizens of other countries. As far as Norwegian: the reason I posted here was to get other people's experiences, I've been reading stories of people missing flights due to TSA/etc and it appears that most of the time other airlines have just rebooked customers for the next flight. If Norwegian would have said "we'll put you on the plane in 2 days", I would have been happy with that.
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Old Sep 5, 2015, 4:31 pm
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The US embassy in Vienna states that is is illegal to enter/leave the EU with a US passport if you are a EU citizen:

http://austria.usembassy.gov/mobile//passports.html

You are lucky you were able to leave without being required to obtain a Finish passport. I have heard of people being stranded in Poland for months because they were born there and considered a citizen, but did not have Polish travel documents. They had to obtain citizenship certificates and then apply for passports. I believe you were also lucky that the US embassy intervened - they really did not have to, because you were a national in your home country.

And by the way, every country treats foreigners different than their own citizens. Have you seen the lines at JFK for visitors?
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Old Sep 5, 2015, 4:44 pm
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Originally Posted by 4GSM
The US embassy in Vienna states that is is illegal to enter/leave the EU with a US passport if you are a EU citizen:

http://austria.usembassy.gov/mobile//passports.html

You are lucky you were able to leave without being required to obtain a Finish passport. I have heard of people being stranded in Poland for months because they were born there and considered a citizen, but did not have Polish travel documents. They had to obtain citizenship certificates and then apply for passports. I believe you were also lucky that the US embassy intervened - they really did not have to, because you were a national in your home country.

And by the way, every country treats foreigners different than their own citizens. Have you seen the lines at JFK for visitors?
Are you saying this applies to all EU citizens or just Austria and Poland? Mr. Fink and I are both Italian citizens (he was born in Italy and it is so noted on his Canadian passport) but we have never used our Italian passports to enter or leave Italy. We always just travel with our Canadian passports amd have never had an issue. Is this country specific?
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Old Sep 5, 2015, 5:25 pm
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I don't see why you wouldn't travel on Finnish passport, it has a lot more respect and easy in Europe compared to an American passport. Could've just used the American one at American airport to re-enter America
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Old Sep 5, 2015, 7:05 pm
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As you may know, being a dual citizen of Finland and another country has a few wrinkles, which may explain some of the scrutiny. Finland has allowed dual citizenship only since early in this century, and dual citizens are subject to losing Finnish citizenship if they don't maintain sufficient contact. Also, Finland has mandatory military service (or alternative civilian service) for male citizens.

Sorry, I don't know exactly how all this works or what your situation is with regard to wanting to renounce Finnish citizenship, which holding US citizenship does not require you to do. I'm just saying that the convoluted rules, not ill will or incompetence, might explain some of the problems at passport control.

Last edited by Giggleswick; Sep 5, 2015 at 7:06 pm Reason: added paragraph break
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Old Sep 5, 2015, 7:41 pm
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Originally Posted by 4GSM
it is illegal to enter/leave the EU with a US passport if you are a EU citizen
That webpage states: "It is illegal to enter the EU
as an EU citizen with the U.S. passport."

To me, this would seem to mean that a dual-national (US/EU) EU citizen can enter the EU
as a US citizen, using a US passport.
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Old Sep 5, 2015, 7:44 pm
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From the perspective of what can be done about the past, the answer is nothing.

D8 did nothing wrong. OP booked and was checked in for their flight. It presumably left ontime (as OP missed it). Thus, no EC 261/2004 compensation of any kind, including duty of care (hotel + meals).

Having missed his D8 flight, OP is stuck with his ticket's fare rules. Those would generally provide for no value for a no show. However, it is unclear to me that D8 was not willing to rebook (but not for 2 days). Thus, OP purchased BA tickets for the next day.

Many countries treat dual nationals as solely their citizens for immigration purposes. The US for example, requires dual nationals to enter the US on their US passport (although there is no exit passport control).

OP's sole remedy is to make a claim with the Finnish government. I can only imagine just how far that will go.
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Old Sep 5, 2015, 11:28 pm
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Originally Posted by cdn1
I don't see why you wouldn't travel on Finnish passport... Could've just used the American one at American airport to re-enter America
You can create quite a lot of trouble for yourself by showing one passport departing country X and a second one entering country Y.
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Old Sep 6, 2015, 2:28 am
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Originally Posted by BearX220
You can create quite a lot of trouble for yourself by showing one passport departing country X and a second one entering country Y.
Not necessarily true, because sometimes you have to. I used to be a dual UK/US national. I had to be in the UK on my UK passport - illegal not to (although not generally particularly well enforced) and I had to be in the US on my US passport. So, I had to switch passports mid-trip. There are many people in much the same position. And, as anyone with even a small grasp of current geo-politics will be aware, immigration control is becoming massively tighter.
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Old Sep 6, 2015, 2:48 am
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Originally Posted by Loren Pechtel
I know the US requires you to enter on your US passport if you have one. Does Finland have a similar rule that you fell afoul of?
Finland doesn't. Lots of people -- Finnish and otherwise -- have a right to enter Finalnd without a passport.

As a US-citizen, HEL passport control has the record for slowest average processing time per passenger when I'm existing the Schengen Zone.

Even for EU/EEA/CH passport users, the self-service machines at HEL have a high enough failure rate that it helps show how HEL has a slower manual processing of EU/EEA/CH passport users than is the case at any and all other Schengen hub airports for a major carrier with US-bound service.

Finnish passport control is a mess way too often in the late afternoon. I should know. I was there within the past 24 hours.
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Old Sep 6, 2015, 2:53 am
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Originally Posted by 4GSM
The US embassy in Vienna states that is is illegal to enter/leave the EU with a US passport if you are a EU citizen:

http://austria.usembassy.gov/mobile//passports.html
If that is what the U.S. Embassy is saying, it's anything but generally correct. . They need to hire better lawyers; that, or realize the USG doesn't make up all of the EU countries' national laws.

Originally Posted by cdn1
I don't see why you wouldn't travel on Finnish passport, it has a lot more respect and easy in Europe compared to an American passport.
If the dual-Finnish-US citizen appears to be of a non-European ethnic origin, then your claim is not all that certain to be true.

Last edited by GUWonder; Sep 6, 2015 at 3:04 am
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