Should MCT be flight-dependent?
Jul 23, 2015 | 1:07 pm
#1
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Should MCT be flight-dependent?
Airlines publish minimum connection times for each airport, the amount of time that should be sufficient for a normal connection. If a connection time is shorter than that, they don't let you book it; and if a connection does meet the MCT, then they accept responsibility for getting you to your destination if delays mean that you miss the connection. The published MCT may vary for international connections (and in some rare cases, for connections between mainline & regional), but otherwise, the MCT doesn't vary by flight.
But should it?
I was looking today for flights from LGA to DFW, leaving as late as possible, and I found this beauty on US/AA:
# 2153
7:00 PM LGA
8:27 PM DCA
# 2218
9:00 PM DCA
11:13 PM DFW
So that's a 33 minute connection, which seems very tight, but this is apparently legal, maybe MCT atPHL DCA is 30 minutes?
But checking the performance of the 1st leg, usairways shows #2153 at 44% on time (within 15 minutes of schedule), 40% late (30+ minutes behind schedule, and 8% canceled.
I guess the other 8% arrived 16-29 minutes late, which would mean a likely missed connection, though at the lower end of that range, with a seat up front on the inbound, no valet check bag to wait on, and a sprint, you might have a small chance.
But even without that 8%, the delay and cancel numbers mean almost half the time, you'll miss the connection. Worse, this is the last flight of the day, so missing the connection means spending the night in DC. Who in their right mind would book this connection - if they notice the short connection time and the performance history?
33 minutes may be reasonable atPHL DCA for inbounds with decent on time performance, or when there are later flights to fall back on. But when neither is the case, I wonder, should US even be selling this connection at all?
But should it?
I was looking today for flights from LGA to DFW, leaving as late as possible, and I found this beauty on US/AA:
# 2153
7:00 PM LGA
8:27 PM DCA
# 2218
9:00 PM DCA
11:13 PM DFW
So that's a 33 minute connection, which seems very tight, but this is apparently legal, maybe MCT at
But checking the performance of the 1st leg, usairways shows #2153 at 44% on time (within 15 minutes of schedule), 40% late (30+ minutes behind schedule, and 8% canceled.
I guess the other 8% arrived 16-29 minutes late, which would mean a likely missed connection, though at the lower end of that range, with a seat up front on the inbound, no valet check bag to wait on, and a sprint, you might have a small chance.
But even without that 8%, the delay and cancel numbers mean almost half the time, you'll miss the connection. Worse, this is the last flight of the day, so missing the connection means spending the night in DC. Who in their right mind would book this connection - if they notice the short connection time and the performance history?
33 minutes may be reasonable at
Last edited by swag; Jul 23, 2015 at 3:00 pm
Jul 23, 2015 | 1:24 pm
#2
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when does door close?
is arrival time door opening?
curious how many flights are like this
Last edited by Kagehitokiri; Jul 23, 2015 at 1:55 pm
Jul 23, 2015 | 2:06 pm
#5
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DCA is Washington National, not Philly.
Assuming two flights there are on the same pier, there isn't more than a 3 minute walk between them. If they're not on the same pier, you're unlikely to make the connection even if the first flight is on time.
Assuming two flights there are on the same pier, there isn't more than a 3 minute walk between them. If they're not on the same pier, you're unlikely to make the connection even if the first flight is on time.
Jul 23, 2015 | 2:17 pm
#6
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Airlines do publish different MCTs for different flight number ranges, origins, destinations, equipment types, date ranges, and even suppress certain connections all together. Here is a listing of the current information for DCA on US from ExpertFlyer:
Results from ExpertFlyer.com
Results from ExpertFlyer.com
Code:
Minimum Connect Times: Connecting at DCA Incoming airline US Outgoing airline US STANDARD.D/D...D/I...I/D...I/I. ONLINE .45 1.00 1.00 1.00 OFFLINE .45 1.00 1.00 1.00 ** OR * ARE ALL US-US DD .25 FLT 2600 - 4454 - FLT 2600 - 4454 YHZ - ALL OPN -04AUG15 US-US DD .30 FLT 2600 - 4454 - FLT 4455 - 4734 YHZ - ALL OPN -04AUG15 US-US DD .25 FLT 2600 - 4454 - FLT 4735 - 5999 YHZ - ALL OPN -04AUG15 US-US DD .30 FLT 4455 - 4734 - FLT 1 - 5599 YHZ - ALL OPN -04AUG15 US-US DD .25 FLT 4734 - 5999 - FLT 2600 - 4454 YHZ - ALL OPN -04AUG15 US-US DD .30 FLT 4734 - 5999 - FLT 4455 - 4734 YHZ - ALL OPN -04AUG15 US-US DD .25 FLT 4734 - 5999 - FLT 4735 - 5999 YHZ - ALL OPN -04AUG15 US-US DD .45 FLT 1 - 2599 - FLT 1 - 5999 AUA - ALL US-US DD .45 FLT 1 - 2599 - FLT 1 - 5999 BDA - ALL US-US DD .30 FLT 1 - 2599 - FLT 1 - 5999 YHZ - ALL US-US DD .25 FLT 2600 - 4454 - FLT 2600 - 4454 YHZ - ALL 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .30 FLT 2600 - 4454 - FLT 4455 - 4734 YHZ - ALL 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .25 FLT 2600 - 4454 - FLT 4735 - 4944 YHZ - ALL 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .30 FLT 2600 - 4454 - FLT 4945 - 5554 YHZ - ALL 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .25 FLT 2600 - 4454 - FLT 5555 - 5999 YHZ - ALL 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .30 FLT 4455 - 4734 - FLT 1 - 5599 YHZ - ALL 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .25 FLT 4735 - 4944 - FLT 2600 - 4454 YHZ - ALL 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .30 FLT 4735 - 4944 - FLT 4455 - 4734 YHZ - ALL 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .25 FLT 4735 - 4944 - FLT 4735 - 4944 YHZ - ALL 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .30 FLT 4735 - 4944 - FLT 4945 - 5554 YHZ - ALL 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .25 FLT 4735 - 4944 - FLT 5555 - 5999 YHZ - ALL 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .30 FLT 4945 - 5554 - FLT 1 - 5599 YHZ - ALL 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .25 FLT 5555 - 5999 - FLT 2600 - 4454 YHZ - ALL 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .30 FLT 5555 - 5999 - FLT 4455 - 4734 YHZ - ALL 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .25 FLT 5555 - 5999 - FLT 4735 - 4944 YHZ - ALL 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .30 FLT 5555 - 5999 - FLT 4945 - 5554 YHZ - ALL 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .25 FLT 5555 - 5999 - FLT 5555 - 5999 YHZ - ALL 05AUG15-INF US-US DD SUP FLT 1 - 9099 - FLT 1 - 9099 CANADA - CANADA US-US DD .45 FLT 1 - 5999 - FLT 1 - 5999 BAHAMAS - ALL US-US DD .45 FLT 1 - 5999 - FLT 1 - 5999 CANADA - ALL US-US DD .30 FLT 1 - 2599 - FLT 1 - 5999 PUERTO RICO - ALL US-US DD .30 FLT 1 - 2599 - FLT 1 - 5999 VIRGIN ISLAND US - ALL US-US DD .25 FLT 2600 - 4454 - FLT 2600 - 4454 OPN -04AUG15 US-US DD .30 FLT 2600 - 4454 - FLT 4455 - 4734 OPN -04AUG15 US-US DD .25 FLT 2600 - 4454 - FLT 4735 - 5999 OPN -04AUG15 US-US DD .30 FLT 4455 - 4734 - FLT 1 - 5599 OPN -04AUG15 US-US DD .25 FLT 4734 - 5999 - FLT 2600 - 4454 OPN -04AUG15 US-US DD .30 FLT 4734 - 5999 - FLT 4455 - 4734 OPN -04AUG15 US-US DD .25 FLT 4734 - 5999 - FLT 4735 - 5999 OPN -04AUG15 US-US DD .30 FLT 1 - 2599 - FLT 1 - 5999 US-US DD .30 FLT 2600 - 5999 - FLT 1 - 2499 US-US DD .45 FLT 6000 - 9099 - FLT 1 - 5999 US-US DD .25 FLT 2600 - 4454 - FLT 2600 - 4454 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .30 FLT 2600 - 4454 - FLT 4455 - 4734 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .25 FLT 2600 - 4454 - FLT 4735 - 4944 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .30 FLT 2600 - 4454 - FLT 4945 - 5554 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .25 FLT 2600 - 4454 - FLT 5555 - 5999 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .30 FLT 4455 - 4734 - FLT 1 - 5599 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .25 FLT 4735 - 4944 - FLT 2600 - 4454 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .30 FLT 4735 - 4944 - FLT 4455 - 4734 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .25 FLT 4735 - 4944 - FLT 4735 - 4944 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .30 FLT 4735 - 4944 - FLT 4945 - 5554 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .25 FLT 4735 - 4944 - FLT 5555 - 5999 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .30 FLT 4945 - 5554 - FLT 1 - 5599 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .25 FLT 5555 - 5999 - FLT 2600 - 4454 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .30 FLT 5555 - 5999 - FLT 4455 - 4734 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .25 FLT 5555 - 5999 - FLT 4735 - 4944 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .30 FLT 5555 - 5999 - FLT 4945 - 5554 05AUG15-INF US-US DD .25 FLT 5555 - 5999 - FLT 5555 - 5999 05AUG15-INF US-US DD SUP FLT 6000 - 9099 - FLT 6000 - 9099 US-US DD SUP ALL - BWI US-US DD SUP BWI - ALL **-US DD .50 AUA - ALL **-US DD .50 BDA - ALL **-US DD .50 BAHAMAS - ALL **-US DD .50 CANADA - ALL **-US DD .45 US-** DD SUP FLT 6000 - 9099 - ALL US-US DI .45 FLT 1 - 2599 - FLT 1 - 5999 AUA - ALL US-US DI .45 FLT 1 - 2599 - FLT 1 - 5999 BDA - ALL US-US DI .30 FLT 1 - 5999 - FLT 1 - 5999 YHZ - ALL US-US DI SUP FLT 1 - 9099 - FLT 1 - 9099 CANADA - CANADA US-US DI .45 FLT 1 - 5999 - FLT 1 - 5999 BAHAMAS - ALL US-US DI .45 FLT 1 - 5999 - FLT 1 - 5999 CANADA - ALL US-US DI .30 FLT 1 - 2599 - FLT 1 - 5999 PUERTO RICO - ALL US-US DI .30 FLT 1 - 2599 - FLT 1 - 5999 VIRGIN ISLAND US - ALL US-US DI .30 FLT 1 - 5999 - FLT 1 - 5999 US-US DI .45 FLT 6000 - 9099 - FLT 1 - 5999 US-US DI SUP FLT 6000 - 9099 - FLT 6000 - 9099 US-US DI SUP ALL - BWI US-US DI SUP BWI - ALL **-US DI .50 AUA - ALL **-US DI .50 BDA - ALL **-US DI .50 BAHAMAS - ALL **-US DI .50 CANADA - ALL **-US DI .45 US-** DI SUP FLT 6000 - 9099 - ALL US-US ID .45 FLT 1 - 2599 - FLT 1 - 5999 AUA - ALL US-US ID .45 FLT 1 - 2599 - FLT 1 - 5999 BDA - ALL US-US ID .30 FLT 1 - 5999 - FLT 1 - 5999 YHZ - ALL US-US ID SUP FLT 1 - 9099 - FLT 1 - 9099 CANADA - CANADA US-US ID .45 FLT 1 - 5999 - FLT 1 - 5999 BAHAMAS - ALL US-US ID .45 FLT 1 - 5999 - FLT 1 - 5999 CANADA - ALL US-US ID .30 FLT 1 - 5999 - FLT 1 - 5999 PUERTO RICO - ALL US-US ID .30 FLT 1 - 5999 - FLT 1 - 5999 VIRGIN ISLAND US - ALL US-US ID 1.00 FLT 1 - 5999 - FLT 1 - 5999 US-US ID 1.00 FLT 6000 - 9099 - FLT 1 - 5999 US-US ID SUP FLT 6000 - 9099 - FLT 6000 - 9099 US-US ID SUP ALL - BWI US-US ID SUP BWI - ALL **-US ID .50 AUA - ALL **-US ID .50 BDA - ALL **-US ID .50 BAHAMAS - ALL **-US ID .50 CANADA - ALL **-US ID 1.00 US-** ID SUP FLT 6000 - 9099 - ALL US-US II .45 FLT 1 - 2599 - FLT 1 - 5999 AUA - ALL US-US II .45 FLT 1 - 2599 - FLT 1 - 5999 BDA - ALL US-US II .30 FLT 1 - 5999 - FLT 1 - 5999 YHZ - ALL US-US II SUP FLT 1 - 9099 - FLT 1 - 9099 CANADA - CANADA US-US II .45 FLT 1 - 5999 - FLT 1 - 5999 BAHAMAS - ALL US-US II .45 FLT 1 - 5999 - FLT 1 - 5999 CANADA - ALL US-US II .30 FLT 1 - 5999 - FLT 1 - 5999 PUERTO RICO - ALL US-US II .30 FLT 1 - 5999 - FLT 1 - 5999 VIRGIN ISLAND US - ALL US-US II 1.00 FLT 1 - 5999 - FLT 1 - 5999 US-US II 1.00 FLT 6000 - 9099 - FLT 1 - 5999 US-US II SUP FLT 6000 - 9099 - FLT 6000 - 9099 US-US II SUP ALL - BWI US-US II SUP BWI - ALL **-US II .50 AUA - ALL **-US II .50 BDA - ALL **-US II .50 BAHAMAS - ALL **-US II .50 CANADA - ALL **-US II 1.00 US-** II SUP FLT 6000 - 9099 - ALL
Jul 23, 2015 | 2:53 pm
#7
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Yes, of course, my mistake; I was looking at LOTS of connections, and lost track.
But no matter how small the airport, would you be comfortable with a 33 minute connection to the last departure of the night, when the inbound has that sort of on time record?
But no matter how small the airport, would you be comfortable with a 33 minute connection to the last departure of the night, when the inbound has that sort of on time record?
Jul 23, 2015 | 3:16 pm
#8
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Should MCT be flight-dependent?
From what I've seen at AA LGA, they will hold the last flight and wait for incoming connections.
MCT is different for codeshare vs operating airline. I've seen MCT for DL to DL (operated by KL/AF) at LHR significantly shorter than DL to KL/AF. Same exact flights. As a result you can buy revenue ATL-LHR-AMS under DL code but can't redeem award for same flights as LHR-AMS has to be booked as KL.
Saw something similar for DUS-RSW-CLT. If booked as AA codeshare not a problem but can't book as AB-US.
MCT is different for codeshare vs operating airline. I've seen MCT for DL to DL (operated by KL/AF) at LHR significantly shorter than DL to KL/AF. Same exact flights. As a result you can buy revenue ATL-LHR-AMS under DL code but can't redeem award for same flights as LHR-AMS has to be booked as KL.
Saw something similar for DUS-RSW-CLT. If booked as AA codeshare not a problem but can't book as AB-US.
Jul 23, 2015 | 4:25 pm
#9
Join Date: May 2013
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I had a 35 min connection weekly on the last CLT-AUS flight of the day and I was comfortable with it. In a year, I probably missed the flight only three times. I had to run quite a bit since the flight to Austin departed from the E terminal, which is a bit of a walk from C14 where my incoming flight usually landed.
Jul 23, 2015 | 5:03 pm
#10
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Probably, though it would also depend on what my recovery plan was and how critical getting "there" that night was. Or just leave on an earlier flight.
Jul 23, 2015 | 5:22 pm
#11
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Only if I was fully prepared to spend the night at the connecting airport. But there are definitely situations where it would be worthwhile to take the risk since the oft delayed flight still gets me to the hub airport, where I probably have a variety of options early the next morning, vs waiting to leave my initial airport until the next morning.
Jul 23, 2015 | 5:45 pm
#12
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Also, flying to/from certain places (especially hub-to-hub) if you are creative you can build connections in really small airports where as long as something isn't too late, you'll make it - I'm talking airports where each carrier has a very small number of gates (like, 1 - 4, for example). Also on UA, but they rebooked my wife from EWR-SFO with a short connection in Jackson Hole because her inbound from India was late. Not a typical connection point, obviously, but it was around Christmas so the non-stops and other typical connection points were all full.
Jul 23, 2015 | 6:34 pm
#13
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The underlying premise is incorrect because carriers do vary their MCT's. However, MCT is simply a reflection of a carrier's willingness to assume the risk of a misconnect. It is not necessarily a Sensible Connect Time (SCT).
If the connection time worries you, then don't book it. DL has 10 non-stops/day LGA-DTW, so it's hardly necessary to fly via DCA.
But, if you do wish to book through DCA, 33 minutes is plenty of time. The USS (AAS?) gates are no more than a 2 minute walk, perhaps less, to the gates likely used for DTW. MCT is calculated from scheduled arrival to scheduled departure. If a flight is often late, presumably the carrier will adjust its scheduled arrival over a period of time. Needless to say, if a flight is delayed, that is when the MCT comes in handy as you are protected.
Nonetheless, it is the last flight of the night. Plan B is a hotel at DCA, so perhaps if you have something mission critical in Detroit the next day, you go back to the non-stops.
If the connection time worries you, then don't book it. DL has 10 non-stops/day LGA-DTW, so it's hardly necessary to fly via DCA.
But, if you do wish to book through DCA, 33 minutes is plenty of time. The USS (AAS?) gates are no more than a 2 minute walk, perhaps less, to the gates likely used for DTW. MCT is calculated from scheduled arrival to scheduled departure. If a flight is often late, presumably the carrier will adjust its scheduled arrival over a period of time. Needless to say, if a flight is delayed, that is when the MCT comes in handy as you are protected.
Nonetheless, it is the last flight of the night. Plan B is a hotel at DCA, so perhaps if you have something mission critical in Detroit the next day, you go back to the non-stops.
Last edited by Often1; Jul 24, 2015 at 6:41 am
Jul 25, 2015 | 2:37 am
#14
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The underlying premise is incorrect because carriers do vary their MCT's. However, MCT is simply a reflection of a carrier's willingness to assume the risk of a misconnect. It is not necessarily a Sensible Connect Time (SCT).
If the connection time worries you, then don't book it. DL has 10 non-stops/day LGA-DTW, so it's hardly necessary to fly via DCA.
But, if you do wish to book through DCA, 33 minutes is plenty of time. The USS (AAS?) gates are no more than a 2 minute walk, perhaps less, to the gates likely used for DTW. MCT is calculated from scheduled arrival to scheduled departure. If a flight is often late, presumably the carrier will adjust its scheduled arrival over a period of time. Needless to say, if a flight is delayed, that is when the MCT comes in handy as you are protected.
Nonetheless, it is the last flight of the night. Plan B is a hotel at DCA, so perhaps if you have something mission critical in Detroit the next day, you go back to the non-stops.
If the connection time worries you, then don't book it. DL has 10 non-stops/day LGA-DTW, so it's hardly necessary to fly via DCA.
But, if you do wish to book through DCA, 33 minutes is plenty of time. The USS (AAS?) gates are no more than a 2 minute walk, perhaps less, to the gates likely used for DTW. MCT is calculated from scheduled arrival to scheduled departure. If a flight is often late, presumably the carrier will adjust its scheduled arrival over a period of time. Needless to say, if a flight is delayed, that is when the MCT comes in handy as you are protected.
Nonetheless, it is the last flight of the night. Plan B is a hotel at DCA, so perhaps if you have something mission critical in Detroit the next day, you go back to the non-stops.