"Invasion" by Arab Gulf Airlines.
Nov 6, 2014, 9:37 am
#31
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I don't think US carriers are going to change much. Look at the routes to Asia, tons of asian carriers that provide better services. UA, AA and Delta still provide inferior services but people still fly them to Asia.
Nov 6, 2014, 9:45 am
#32
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They would consider themselves Arabian Gulf carriers. Unsure the point of your post...
Last edited by SMFlagg; Nov 6, 2014 at 9:51 am
Nov 6, 2014, 10:13 am
#33
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I was chatting with a NZ SD on a loooonnnng flight. He used to work for EK, for 5 years.
As he put it, being younger it was 'fun' because they fly to so many places, however, rest times are much lower, maximum hours per month is much higher, their (physical) standards are rigid and people are fired because they are getting too old or less attractive.
In addition, there is a type of cast system in many of the countries they offer primary service to, and a flight attendant is often treated like a servant.
That being said, the people who will refuse to fly them for moral reasons are few and far between. Better planes, better service, 1 stop to almost and 2 city pairs in the world at discounted prices will most certainly keep their planes full.
As he put it, being younger it was 'fun' because they fly to so many places, however, rest times are much lower, maximum hours per month is much higher, their (physical) standards are rigid and people are fired because they are getting too old or less attractive.
In addition, there is a type of cast system in many of the countries they offer primary service to, and a flight attendant is often treated like a servant.
That being said, the people who will refuse to fly them for moral reasons are few and far between. Better planes, better service, 1 stop to almost and 2 city pairs in the world at discounted prices will most certainly keep their planes full.
If I ever fly these, I would only pass through the ME airports, not stay in those places. Of course there are stories about the relatively more liberal UAE and Dubai treating foreign visitors poorly if they run afoul of some Muslim morality, which dates back to the Middle Ages.
Nov 6, 2014, 10:59 am
#34
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I am not absolving US carriers of all blame for not buying enough airplanes, nor indeed the US customers that have let them get away with it by not being sufficiently demanding.
Just saying, if and when US and EU carriers (BA has some aged 747s too, I am sure there are others) finally get around to fleet replacement, it is not an outright win for the consumer if those carriers have to fly less than ideal airframes.
But completely agree, if such US and EU carriers bought more planes then Boeing and Airbus would be making planes to suit their operations.
Ideally, it would be more of a win for consumers at the end of the line if airlines had more than 2 manufacturers to buy wide-body jets from.
Just saying, if and when US and EU carriers (BA has some aged 747s too, I am sure there are others) finally get around to fleet replacement, it is not an outright win for the consumer if those carriers have to fly less than ideal airframes.
But completely agree, if such US and EU carriers bought more planes then Boeing and Airbus would be making planes to suit their operations.
Ideally, it would be more of a win for consumers at the end of the line if airlines had more than 2 manufacturers to buy wide-body jets from.
What? AA placed one of the largest orders ever two years ago, of 450 new planes, split between Boeing and Airbus.
Nov 6, 2014, 11:00 am
#35
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Jeff Smisek , chief executive of United Airlines, called for U.S. government limits on Gulf airlines. (The Obama administration has shown no signs of a policy change.)
Mr. Smisek’s counterpart at American, Doug Parker , told an airline conference this fall that the Gulf carriers were his biggest business concern.
Nov 6, 2014, 11:11 am
#36
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I know that AA has a huge fleet renewal programme but in the meantime when they let their fleet get old, they lost design influence to the Gulf carriers. That was the point I endeavoured to make originally.
The point of making this comment was that it is not a de facto win for the consumer if a carrier like TP can not buy a suitable aircraft for a route like MIA LIS that the Gulf carriers do not operate.
Nov 6, 2014, 11:16 am
#37
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Nov 6, 2014, 11:45 am
#38
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That may have more to do with company travel accounts mandating certain airlines and people consequently locking into certain loyalty and mileage programs by the US carriers, and less an indication of their real competitiveness in terms of service (or lack thereof) offered.
Nov 6, 2014, 11:55 am
#39
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EY is owned by Abu Dhabi, but is not subsidized by their home city
LINK
QR is a little bit more murky, but claims it is not subsidized
LINK
And all these airlines' leaders state correctly that some of the biggest European airlines were government-owned until fairly recently.
Meanwhile, the U.S. government bailed out U.S. legacy carriers in 2001. So, like it or not, your tax dollars have gone towards maintaining American, Delta, Southwest, and United.
Still feel the same way about gulf carriers?
Nov 6, 2014, 12:04 pm
#40
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Given the amount of money the US airline's domestic business can generate they shouldn't need governmental subsidy. They have 2 markets they can compete in and if they have a proper product, they can come up ahead. I fly low cost domestic everywhere (upgrades if I get lucky) and I would absolutely fly ME or Asian airlines over US carriers.
Nov 6, 2014, 1:01 pm
#41
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Given the amount of money the US airline's domestic business can generate they shouldn't need governmental subsidy. They have 2 markets they can compete in and if they have a proper product, they can come up ahead. I fly low cost domestic everywhere (upgrades if I get lucky) and I would absolutely fly ME or Asian airlines over US carriers.
US airlines (at least AA and DL) are now raking in over $1 billion per quarter. They have more than enough money to improve their hard and soft product standards to match that of their competitors.
In reality however, AA has been slashing spending on its soft product across both domestic and intercontinental networks. They cannot compete simply because they don't even try to.
Nov 6, 2014, 1:30 pm
#42
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I worked at QR for five years and can tell you that they are an excellent employer for all grades.
All staff are paid in full and on time, and accommodated in safe, secure housing. In the case of junior staff their pay and housing almost always exceeds that which they could expect at home.
All staff are paid in full and on time, and accommodated in safe, secure housing. In the case of junior staff their pay and housing almost always exceeds that which they could expect at home.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/qatar...xperience.html
Nov 6, 2014, 1:36 pm
#43
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I was reading the Lufthansa CEO interview from 2013 last night (probably ought to get out more often) and he was saying that in addition to filling up Boeing and Airbus capacity with their orders, Gulf carriers are also influencing the design stage by demanding higher MTOW/range. So when LH or AA for example can actually manage to order some planes, they are not ideally suited for their ops as they are heavier and more powerful than they really need.
To that end maybe this isn't an outright win for the customers if EU and US airlines are forced to fly less efficient over-engineered aircraft.
To that end maybe this isn't an outright win for the customers if EU and US airlines are forced to fly less efficient over-engineered aircraft.
Nov 6, 2014, 1:52 pm
#44
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The title of this thread should be changed. Or have the Persians concurred Iraq, Kuwait, Qatar, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, the UAE, and Oman?
Nov 6, 2014, 3:07 pm
#45
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 275
The idea that FAs don't get fired also tends to lead to lack customer focus. Generalizing a bit here but in really many older FAs or those with more seniority tends to be ruder and less interested in helping customers.