edgewood49

I agree, the problem is not the Gulf states coming in it's the US based airlines crappy product which has been in decline for years. They pack us in like sardines feed us ? Charge an incredible amount for a drink and then to boot the FA's have attitudes and the planes stink. Hmmm

For me it's AF to Europe and next week EX to Johannesburg.

rwoman

My experience on EK (777 with 3-4-3) Y was horrid...I'll take a DL 772 with 3-3-3 (or any with 3-3-3) in Y over the many carriers who have 3-4-3 in Y any time.

edgewood49

flying FC LAX and 777 business from Dubai to Jo town

JohnnyColombia

I was reading the Lufthansa CEO interview from 2013 last night (probably ought to get out more often) and he was saying that in addition to filling up Boeing and Airbus capacity with their orders, Gulf carriers are also influencing the design stage by demanding higher MTOW/range. So when LH or AA for example can actually manage to order some planes, they are not ideally suited for their ops as they are heavier and more powerful than they really need.

To that end maybe this isn't an outright win for the customers if EU and US airlines are forced to fly less efficient over-engineered aircraft.

edgewood49

I am not totally sold on that thought. The US airlines only have themselves to blame. Business 101 fly on a beater or fly on a nice clean new metal can. Now having said that how long has it taken the US carriers to even think about a refresh on their planes? I remember getting on a DL 757 and the toilet was duck taped! Seats smelly and beat up.

JohnnyColombia

I am not absolving US carriers of all blame for not buying enough airplanes, nor indeed the US customers that have let them get away with it by not being sufficiently demanding.

Just saying, if and when US and EU carriers (BA has some aged 747s too, I am sure there are others) finally get around to fleet replacement, it is not an outright win for the consumer if those carriers have to fly less than ideal airframes.

But completely agree, if such US and EU carriers bought more planes then Boeing and Airbus would be making planes to suit their operations.

Ideally, it would be more of a win for consumers at the end of the line if airlines had more than 2 manufacturers to buy wide-body jets from.

cmd320

I have zero sympathy for any US airlines in this whole affair and welcome foreign competition. I only wish they would open the domestic market up to foreign competition as well because I can safely say I would never fly AA/DL/UA again.

US airlines have all had opportunities to emerge from bankruptcy with new identities and also have had the ability to align their garbage products with the far superior products of foreign airlines. They have chosen not to, and instead, to wage war on the customer by providing worse products at higher prices to appease no one but the shareholder in the short term.

I personally cannot wait to watch them face increased competition from far superior international carriers.

rwoman

I'm sure it'll be great; not all of us are able to fly in F/J much of the time.

hyho61

Even the current level of amenities and comfort one gets on US airlines service to Europe and Asia is due to pressure from Middle East and European carriers. Otherwise, the US carriers would charge you for food on international flights. All of them charge for food on 8+ hour flights to Hawaii, just because they can get away with it, but are forced to provide the complimentary food for economy class on European routes.

And UA does not have complimentary alcohol yet in economy class, DL and AA do though.

edgewood49

true but premium coach is also a good product my opinion

edgewood49

One point, the foreign flag carriers do enjoy certain benefits in their country where ours don't. They have for years, thats the bad news the good news is that many of the countries can not afford to subsidize their flag carriers anymore.

All carriers are not equal when it comes to cockpit training, for the Asian carriers the legacy of subordinating to the PIC has lead to many issues, some not so good outcome. Some carriers have very low flight hours requirements. For me I try to chose carefully whom I fly on. Just saying

PLeblond

I was chatting with a NZ SD on a loooonnnng flight. He used to work for EK, for 5 years.

As he put it, being younger it was 'fun' because they fly to so many places, however, rest times are much lower, maximum hours per month is much higher, their (physical) standards are rigid and people are fired because they are getting too old or less attractive.

In addition, there is a type of cast system in many of the countries they offer primary service to, and a flight attendant is often treated like a servant.

That being said, the people who will refuse to fly them for moral reasons are few and far between. Better planes, better service, 1 stop to almost and 2 city pairs in the world at discounted prices will most certainly keep their planes full.

cmd320

Being honest, I don't really care if a carrier enjoys benefits from its country or not, so long as I get an acceptable customer experience on the ground and in the air.

As far as cockpit training and work conditions, I agree that there are issues with some Asian airlines on crew resource management. Of course, there's also US pilots who have fallen asleep, flown intoxicated, and had mental breakdowns on the job. Further, if you want to talk about lack of training US regionals are about as bad as they get, and there are plenty of accidents relating to that problem.

vishalgupta22

I apologize if I got it wrong.

Being paid more than what a worker would be paid at home doesnt tell that the worker is paid prevailing market wage. You can't compare wages with what the worker would expect at home, the only valid comparison is with market rates at the place of employment.

For example if there was a immigrant unskilled employee from India/Bangladesh etc working in USA, he would probably get 1-2$ an hour in india. In the US, if he is paid say 3-4$ an hour, that is 3 times what he would expect at home but is still serious exploitation.

JOUY31

Calling QR, EY and EK Gulf carriers, as the WSJ did, is accurate. But I don't think any of these three airlines consider themselves to be Persian Gulf carriers