morges1

See this week's Economist: http://www.economist.com/news/busine...249e1cca2038c|

UGH!

HMO

While the majority continues voting with their wallets, it'll only increase. Ops, decrease - the pitch.

CitizenWorld

I'm not seeing an issue with this. Flying in any class Y in particular is cheaper than ever and you quite literally get what you pay for. Flying both long haul business and economy I honestly don't think Y is as bad as people make it out to be.

ScatterX

Perhaps some entrepreneur should seize upon this huge opportunity. The new altruistic airlines (AA) can have spacious seats and marvelous service throughout coach. They will just have to raise the prices as needed to make a profit. People will ditch the cram 'em in airlines in droves, perfectly willing to pay more for better product. All these airlines that pack in the customers will be bankrupt before you know it.

What could possibly go wrong?

Ber2dca

I don't mind provided they expand on premium economy and other "middle" options. I only fly business/first if someone else pays for it or it's an upgrade, but long-haul in Y is starting to simply be no option anymore on the newer planes with seat width and pitch decreasing a bit more with every new configuration.

Tchiowa

I assume that was sarcasm. People have voted exactly the other way with their wallets.

84fiero

I don't think that passengers' behavior is quite as black and white as articles like this make it seem.

I don't know that the average passenger knew that he was telling airlines to squeeze us as tight as sardines because he chose the $25 cheaper flight on Kayak.

Economy Plus/Comfort/MCE seats seem to be selling well enough to non-elites. Also Jet Blue is doing well with its more roomy accommodations even in Y.

Besides, even if passengers were specifically clamoring for more legroom, the airlines would be reducing pitch anyway to keep their profits healthier. That's what has been and will continue to be the driver for this kind of seating change, regardless of customer sentiment or behavior.

GUWonder

Economy class flying in the US and TATL is substantially less affordable for the average American household than it was five, ten, fifteen or twenty years ago.

The DOT fare data and inflation discounting games doesn't tell the whole story, but it does contribute to the evidence that these airfares are less affordable now than they used to be.

The airlines aren't squeezing in customers to cut more customers a price break -- the airlines are cramming in more passengers per area in order to increase profits .... even at the cost of passenger (dis)comfort.

CitizenWorld

That does not mean fares aren't cheaper, airlines are a business and you quite literally get what you pay for

invisible

Do you have any statistics/proof to back this argument? Average airfare compared with average inflation adjusted household income would help.

Thanks.

HMO

+1

GUWonder

Yes, but you'll have to find it yourself as I did repeatedly before.

But you'd do better in finding what I stated if you focus on inflation adjusted household income of a specific type.

CitizenWorld

I don't see how American families becoming relatively poorer (I think that's what you're trying to say) is relevant to the discussion.

ScatterX

Yes. And your point is spot on. Most customers have clearly indicated they will forgo comfort to save money. The article, incorrectly, implies this is a societal class warfare issue.

I'm sure the average customer doesn't think about or understand this dynamic. Regardless, the airlines will sell what the customers buy (whether the purchase consciously or subconsciously doesn't really matter).

We all have our preferences and these can be lumped into many different groups. Some will pay for J/F and some will pay for EC. The fact of the matter is simple. Most people will chose the lowest price. Airlines might be able to fill an entire plane with people that are willing to stand for the whole flight.

IMO, the airlines are trying to take care of (i.e., get the most money from) from what I guess are the 10% that are willing to pay for niceties (J/F) or a little extra space (EC). If the demand for (or profitability of) J/F/EC becomes greater than cattle class, airlines will up the price for those services and/or offer more of them. The demand is not there, so they don't.

The most intriguing thing is how far the airlines can go before the overwhelming majority of "lowest cost no matter what" crowd changes their behavior. My guess is the majority will never pay a lot more, they will simply fly less.

Tchiowa

Here's an Atlantic article showing how airfares have dropped 50% in inflation adjusted terms in 30 years. Good graph.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business/...oticed/273506/

And here are some charts showing that US mean and average incomes rose pretty steadily until 2008 and have been flat since then.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persona..._United_States

But since income is flat and airfares are down, I'd say it's the opposite of the original claim. Even including baggage and fess, costs are down compared to income.