Does Clear Make Any Sense?
#16
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: SFO; SJC
Programs: UA Silver; WN; Marriott; SPG; Hilton; IHG; National; TSA Pre; Clear
Posts: 199
Which goes back to the original question I asked.
I assume that it is because of the initial "trusted traveler" idea that Clear still has the biometric looking checkpoints, even though that level or security really serves no purpose.
I don't see the public policy rationale for allowing some people to pay money to a private company to cut the line for a governmental service.
I assume that it is because of the initial "trusted traveler" idea that Clear still has the biometric looking checkpoints, even though that level or security really serves no purpose.
I don't see the public policy rationale for allowing some people to pay money to a private company to cut the line for a governmental service.
As far as the public policy rationale. Here in CA, some people pay money to drive solo in the carpool lane (toll lane), and they are paying a government agency to do it. Saving time, just as in Clear.
#17
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: MCO
Programs: DL-DM/1MM, HILTON-DIA, .HYATT-DIA/GLOB , IHG-PLT,HERTZ 5*, NATIONAL ES
Posts: 8,700
Which goes back to the original question I asked.
I see the public policy rationale for having a "trusted traveler" program, which is what Clear was originally supposed to be. However, when the TSA ultimately did not allow a different inspection for Clear members as Clear initially promised, it became a program where you simply pay money to cut the line.
I assume that it is because of the initial "trusted traveler" idea that Clear still has the biometric looking checkpoints, even though that level or security really serves no purpose.
I don't see the public policy rationale for allowing some people to pay money to a private company to cut the line for a governmental service.
I see the public policy rationale for having a "trusted traveler" program, which is what Clear was originally supposed to be. However, when the TSA ultimately did not allow a different inspection for Clear members as Clear initially promised, it became a program where you simply pay money to cut the line.
I assume that it is because of the initial "trusted traveler" idea that Clear still has the biometric looking checkpoints, even though that level or security really serves no purpose.
I don't see the public policy rationale for allowing some people to pay money to a private company to cut the line for a governmental service.
BTW, I pity the fool in SFO that pays UA $40 for the use of the premier line...... That line can be three times worse than the regular line
#18
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: SFO; SJC
Programs: UA Silver; WN; Marriott; SPG; Hilton; IHG; National; TSA Pre; Clear
Posts: 199
BTW, I'm doing SFO-MCO soon, and am looking forward to using Clear on both ends.
#19
Original Poster




Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 3,963
That is not exactly correct re the car pool lanes.
You can only pay your way into a carpool lane which is determined to be underutilized. So no buying your way into the carpool lanes in the central SF Bay Area, for example.
When you buy your way into an underutilized carpool lane it is not at the expense of anyone else, i.e., no one has a longer journey because you are in the underutilized lane.
In contrast, when you use clear, when you go to the head of the line you are causing others to wait longer.
You can only pay your way into a carpool lane which is determined to be underutilized. So no buying your way into the carpool lanes in the central SF Bay Area, for example.
When you buy your way into an underutilized carpool lane it is not at the expense of anyone else, i.e., no one has a longer journey because you are in the underutilized lane.
In contrast, when you use clear, when you go to the head of the line you are causing others to wait longer.
The biometrics serve as your ID. You don't have to show a passport or DL when going through Clear.
As far as the public policy rationale. Here in CA, some people pay money to drive solo in the carpool lane (toll lane), and they are paying a government agency to do it. Saving time, just as in Clear.
As far as the public policy rationale. Here in CA, some people pay money to drive solo in the carpool lane (toll lane), and they are paying a government agency to do it. Saving time, just as in Clear.
#20
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: SFO; SJC
Programs: UA Silver; WN; Marriott; SPG; Hilton; IHG; National; TSA Pre; Clear
Posts: 199
That is not exactly correct re the car pool lanes.
You can only pay your way into a carpool lane which is determined to be underutilized. So no buying your way into the carpool lanes in the central SF Bay Area, for example.
When you buy your way into an underutilized carpool lane it is not at the expense of anyone else, i.e., no one has a longer journey because you are in the underutilized lane.
In contrast, when you use clear, when you go to the head of the line you are causing others to wait longer.
You can only pay your way into a carpool lane which is determined to be underutilized. So no buying your way into the carpool lanes in the central SF Bay Area, for example.
When you buy your way into an underutilized carpool lane it is not at the expense of anyone else, i.e., no one has a longer journey because you are in the underutilized lane.
In contrast, when you use clear, when you go to the head of the line you are causing others to wait longer.
The idea is purely for the agencies to receive the additional money, they have even admitted it.
As far as Clear delaying people in the security line: That is another reason they escort you, to minimize the delay. And the delay is very minimal, believe me, only a few seconds, because you place all your items in the trays while standing outside of the line. Then, the escort jumps in and places your items on the belt and puts you in line. I've never heard anyone complain
#21
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: MCO
Programs: DL-DM/1MM, HILTON-DIA, .HYATT-DIA/GLOB , IHG-PLT,HERTZ 5*, NATIONAL ES
Posts: 8,700
That is not exactly correct re the car pool lanes.
You can only pay your way into a carpool lane which is determined to be underutilized. So no buying your way into the carpool lanes in the central SF Bay Area, for example.
When you buy your way into an underutilized carpool lane it is not at the expense of anyone else, i.e., no one has a longer journey because you are in the underutilized lane.
In contrast, when you use clear, when you go to the head of the line you are causing others to wait longer.
You can only pay your way into a carpool lane which is determined to be underutilized. So no buying your way into the carpool lanes in the central SF Bay Area, for example.
When you buy your way into an underutilized carpool lane it is not at the expense of anyone else, i.e., no one has a longer journey because you are in the underutilized lane.
In contrast, when you use clear, when you go to the head of the line you are causing others to wait longer.

In reality the CLEAR line feeds to different places depending on that day's config. Often it feeds into the crew line, not a regular line (at least on the DL side)
Sometimes they open the rope and boot me in right in front of a pile of kettles. Sure I feel a little guilty for about a minute. It passes.
#23
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 70
CLEAR plus TSA Pre-Check is an unbeatbable combination. I fly out of DEN once a week. If the TSA Pre-Check comes through, my total time going through security aveages about 3 minutes. Without Pre-Check you will be subject, of course, to the standard security search, but CLEAR cuts out the whole first step of waiting in line to have your license/passport checked. How often do we show up two or two-and-a-half hours early because the biggest crapshoot of the day is the length of the security line. For me, at least CLEAR provides some assurance that I've already won half the battle of getting through security. If the Pre-Check comes through, it's a complete victory.
#25
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: MCO
Programs: UA Gold, AirBerlin Gold, Hilton Gold, Club Carlson Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 163
MCO has both FF lines, as well as, recently opened Pre-Check. I do not expect Clear to survive for long at MCO.
#26




Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: LAX
Programs: AA ExPlat, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 1,132
Clear used to be a client of mine (I work in advertising) back under the original ownership of Steven Brill. Their business model was shoddy, as their revenue stream was compromised by the fees they had to pay airports like MCO (their launch airport, from what I remember) and the low pool of potential customers, despite having presence in major metro areas, like NYC.
Though the new ownership group doesn't have the legacy costs of the old Clear, I think the challenges they face have multiplied. I don't know what they pay out to the few airports they operate in, but back in the day, the demand was simply much lower than what their financial model required for survival.
I was a Clear member back then, and used it in LGA and CVG and it was nice to be guaranteed breezy pass-through. But I'm not sure that the incremental 5 minutes in the FF line in a 2nd tier airport like MCO, SFO or DEN would be worth the $179/year. It is to some, obviously, but I wonder if the number of those folks is enough for the Clear to break even.
Though the new ownership group doesn't have the legacy costs of the old Clear, I think the challenges they face have multiplied. I don't know what they pay out to the few airports they operate in, but back in the day, the demand was simply much lower than what their financial model required for survival.
I was a Clear member back then, and used it in LGA and CVG and it was nice to be guaranteed breezy pass-through. But I'm not sure that the incremental 5 minutes in the FF line in a 2nd tier airport like MCO, SFO or DEN would be worth the $179/year. It is to some, obviously, but I wonder if the number of those folks is enough for the Clear to break even.
#27
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 13,595
I don't care if people can pay to cut in line - it already happens in many places by virtue of flying business / first anyway.
I do have a problem with a 'trusted traveller' concept. There is no one I would consider 100% trustworthy. But wait, what about that 80 year old grandma? That army officer? The priest? Nope, nope and nope. Firstly, I don't buy the idea that terrorists have a 'look' - despite Hollywood's ideas to the contrary. Just because someone has a certain skin colour, is a certain age, or travelling with their child does not make them 'safe'. The 80 year old grandma? "Hey lady, we have your grandkids, and will kill them unless you smuggle this explosive through the security line and give it to our guy on the other side". The army officer, could he have suffered PTSD and now has a somewhat twisted sense of right and wrong, and his duty to protect? The priest - long term planning, sure, but it doesn't take much to become a priest.
I do have a problem with a 'trusted traveller' concept. There is no one I would consider 100% trustworthy. But wait, what about that 80 year old grandma? That army officer? The priest? Nope, nope and nope. Firstly, I don't buy the idea that terrorists have a 'look' - despite Hollywood's ideas to the contrary. Just because someone has a certain skin colour, is a certain age, or travelling with their child does not make them 'safe'. The 80 year old grandma? "Hey lady, we have your grandkids, and will kill them unless you smuggle this explosive through the security line and give it to our guy on the other side". The army officer, could he have suffered PTSD and now has a somewhat twisted sense of right and wrong, and his duty to protect? The priest - long term planning, sure, but it doesn't take much to become a priest.
#28
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: DEN
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 70
CLEAR: Low Demand
Clear used to be a client of mine (I work in advertising) back under the original ownership of Steven Brill. Their business model was shoddy, as their revenue stream was compromised by the fees they had to pay airports like MCO (their launch airport, from what I remember) and the low pool of potential customers, despite having presence in major metro areas, like NYC.
Though the new ownership group doesn't have the legacy costs of the old Clear, I think the challenges they face have multiplied. I don't know what they pay out to the few airports they operate in, but back in the day, the demand was simply much lower than what their financial model required for survival.
I was a Clear member back then, and used it in LGA and CVG and it was nice to be guaranteed breezy pass-through. But I'm not sure that the incremental 5 minutes in the FF line in a 2nd tier airport like MCO, SFO or DEN would be worth the $179/year. It is to some, obviously, but I wonder if the number of those folks is enough for the Clear to break even.
Though the new ownership group doesn't have the legacy costs of the old Clear, I think the challenges they face have multiplied. I don't know what they pay out to the few airports they operate in, but back in the day, the demand was simply much lower than what their financial model required for survival.
I was a Clear member back then, and used it in LGA and CVG and it was nice to be guaranteed breezy pass-through. But I'm not sure that the incremental 5 minutes in the FF line in a 2nd tier airport like MCO, SFO or DEN would be worth the $179/year. It is to some, obviously, but I wonder if the number of those folks is enough for the Clear to break even.
#29
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 7
Clear longer than FF line
Last Monday (12/10) I waited in the Clear line on the Southwest/Delta end of MCO. While waiting, I realized that there is now a first class/A-List line right next to the Clear line. The first class/A-list line had about 1/3 the number of people as the Clear line. The Clear employees where aware of this, and asked me to email their bosses to see if they would be able to negotiate with TSA for a 2nd lane.
#30
FlyerTalk Evangelist




Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Danville, CA, USA;
Programs: UA 1MM, WN CP, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Gold, IC Plat
Posts: 18,104
Clear just opened at LAS.
While sadly I have not been to LAS for some time but my recollection is that the TSA lines were horrific on Sundays, particularly for the WN terminals.
Even though I always get precheck, Clear makes sense for me based at SFO/SJC, particularly as I fly often to IAH/HOU and occasionally DEN. It is an even better deal if your family travels frequently as the add-on is only $50/yr. for your spouse, and children <12 are free. ^
+1 Particularly now that Clear has been added to the International Terminal where TSA line times vary significantly. It is also nice that Clear users are now permitted to use pre-check but avoid the sometimes lengthy precheck line @SFO T3
+1 Lines at DEN used to be horrible on holiday weekends but not so bad lately. However it is nice to know that I will Clear quickly.
While sadly I have not been to LAS for some time but my recollection is that the TSA lines were horrific on Sundays, particularly for the WN terminals.Even though I always get precheck, Clear makes sense for me based at SFO/SJC, particularly as I fly often to IAH/HOU and occasionally DEN. It is an even better deal if your family travels frequently as the add-on is only $50/yr. for your spouse, and children <12 are free. ^
+1 Lines at DEN used to be horrible on holiday weekends but not so bad lately. However it is nice to know that I will Clear quickly.





