Isn't this cabotage?
May 9, 2012 | 11:04 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: YVR
Programs: Non-status bottomfeeder
Posts: 829
Isn't this cabotage?
Looking to maximize mileage in a year where I will just sneak by the status threshold. Why am I even being offered this routing? Isn't this illegal for me to fly?
YOW-DCA-PHX-YVR
YOW-DCA-PHX-YVR
May 9, 2012 | 11:17 pm
#3
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: BKK/SEL/YQG
Posts: 2,544
From Wikipedia
Cabotage situations can also occur as a consequence of hub-and-spoke operations. Consider that Air Canada has a major hub at Toronto that offers flights to several U.S. cities. While a passenger is able to buy a ticket from Boston to Toronto, and a separate ticket from Toronto to Seattle later that same day, both flights cannot be offered on the same itinerary because this would effectively be a U.S. domestic service
May 10, 2012 | 1:55 am
#4
Join Date: Dec 2007
Programs: Enough to travel better
Posts: 2,023
I'm pretty sure it is Cabotage but I don't think its illegal for you to FLY, just illegal for them to offer it.
From Wikipedia
Cabotage situations can also occur as a consequence of hub-and-spoke operations. Consider that Air Canada has a major hub at Toronto that offers flights to several U.S. cities. While a passenger is able to buy a ticket from Boston to Toronto, and a separate ticket from Toronto to Seattle later that same day, both flights cannot be offered on the same itinerary because this would effectively be a U.S. domestic service
From Wikipedia
Cabotage situations can also occur as a consequence of hub-and-spoke operations. Consider that Air Canada has a major hub at Toronto that offers flights to several U.S. cities. While a passenger is able to buy a ticket from Boston to Toronto, and a separate ticket from Toronto to Seattle later that same day, both flights cannot be offered on the same itinerary because this would effectively be a U.S. domestic service
May 10, 2012 | 2:14 am
#5
Join Date: May 2006
Location: PMD
Programs: UA*G, NW, AA. WR-G, HH-S, IHG, ALL. TT-GE.
Posts: 3,116
Good point. However, the OP is flying outbound from YOW to DCA on a codeshare partner, which I would imagine to be AC. Then DCA-PHX-YVR segments are on US metal with two different flight numbers. So I wonder what the cabotoge definition is when you get into the weeds like this. The Wikipedia definition is not clear.
May 10, 2012 | 7:06 am
#8
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Earth. Residency:HKG formerly:YYZ
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Definitely two or more fares combined. AC and WS are the only carrier that can sell YOW YVR fare. None of the US airlines have freedom rights to do so.
I can go BUF YVR or YYZ SEA/BLI but not YYZ YVR on any US airline on one ticket.
I can go BUF YVR or YYZ SEA/BLI but not YYZ YVR on any US airline on one ticket.
May 10, 2012 | 12:33 pm
#9
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: YYZ
Programs: ACMM SE100K; *G
Posts: 1,526
My understanding is that Air Canada offering a USA to USA trip is cabotage. And a US airline offering a Canada to Canada trip is also cabotage. So if the OP is on one ticket on US originating and ending in Canada, then it's cabotage.
If, let's say, the carrier was Air Canada and it was something like YOW-PHX-YVR, then it wouldn't be cabotage, but AC doesn't offer domestic flights with a US connection because it isn't in their, nor their passengers' best interests (mileage runs aside
).
If I'm wrong on this, please educate me.
If, let's say, the carrier was Air Canada and it was something like YOW-PHX-YVR, then it wouldn't be cabotage, but AC doesn't offer domestic flights with a US connection because it isn't in their, nor their passengers' best interests (mileage runs aside
).If I'm wrong on this, please educate me.
May 10, 2012 | 1:14 pm
#10
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: TAS
Programs: A3*G, UA 1K
Posts: 9,250
My understanding is that Air Canada offering a USA to USA trip is cabotage. And a US airline offering a Canada to Canada trip is also cabotage. So if the OP is on one ticket on US originating and ending in Canada, then it's cabotage.
If, let's say, the carrier was Air Canada and it was something like YOW-PHX-YVR, then it wouldn't be cabotage, but AC doesn't offer domestic flights with a US connection because it isn't in their, nor their passengers' best interests (mileage runs aside ).
If I'm wrong on this, please educate me.
If, let's say, the carrier was Air Canada and it was something like YOW-PHX-YVR, then it wouldn't be cabotage, but AC doesn't offer domestic flights with a US connection because it isn't in their, nor their passengers' best interests (mileage runs aside
).If I'm wrong on this, please educate me.
May 10, 2012 | 1:47 pm
#11
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: YYZ
Programs: ACMM SE100K; *G
Posts: 1,526
I'm saying YOW-DCA-YVR on a Canadian carrier wouldn't technically be cabotage, but on a US carrier it would if it didn't include a full stop (i.e. open jaw trip).
May 11, 2012 | 11:35 am
#12
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: United Arab Emirates & Arizona, USA
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The OP's trip is not an open jaw. It's a one-way trip with two stops. Perhaps it really is two one-way fares pushed together in a way that is transparent to the buyer.
May 11, 2012 | 4:30 pm
#13
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: yyz
Programs: Non-Rev Lifetime
Posts: 1,925
Flying YOW-DCA-PHX-YVR is not cabotage. YOW-DCA-YVR is.
Flying SEA-YYC-YYZ-GRR-YYZ-SEA is not cabotage.
Neither is SEA-YYC-YYZ-GRR-SEA.
Point is, domestic segments such as DCA-PHX and YYC-YYZ render cabotage concerns as irrelevant.
Flying SEA-YYC-YYZ-GRR-YYZ-SEA is not cabotage.
Neither is SEA-YYC-YYZ-GRR-SEA.
Point is, domestic segments such as DCA-PHX and YYC-YYZ render cabotage concerns as irrelevant.
Last edited by PropWasher; May 11, 2012 at 5:18 pm
May 12, 2012 | 6:34 pm
#14
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SFO
Programs: *G^2, Bonvoyed, NEXUS
Posts: 3,678
Air Canada's website will gladly sell you a USA1-CAN-USA2 multi-city ticket (i.e. SFO-YVR-LAX) with both segments on the same day. You are purchasing separate fares so I don't see anything wrong with this. A problem would arise if it was one fare basis.