One more --
7) direct service LAX and LAS to Madison (MSN) -- I think it was either NW or FL, and I'll go with Frontier.

Merida was a more understandable point than the inland Mexican cities, for a small but growing tourist traffic had started from Europe to this area of coastal southern Mexico. Other European countries such as Britain, France and Netherlands had their former Caribbean colonies nearby to focus on, but Germany had none and their holiday companies promoted this Mexican area. Early flights spread among Merida, Cozumel and Cancun, nowadays European holiday flights are mostly concentrated on Cancun. I see the short-lived German holiday flight operator Paninternational, using ex-American 707-123Bs, was operating charters from Dusseldorf to Merida, stopping for fuel in Santa Maria, Azores, in winter 1970.

Indeed, this was a longer-standing operation rather than the short attempt by Air France. Peru and Japan seem to have had many ties - the Peruvian President from 1990-2000 was a dual Peru/Japanese citizen.

7) Direct service LAX and LAS to Madison (MSN) -- I think it was either NW or FL, and I'll go with Frontier.

And you would be correct. 737-200 service in each case... Frontier's one class 73S were outfitted with just 106 seats (by comparison, most airlines' single class configs were 124) meaning great leg room. Throw in some of the best food in the air and FL was a great way to fly!

9) Nonstop MSY-JAX -- Texas International with a DC-9

Yes Sir! Texas International! (Anyone remember that old advertising line?)

10) Which of these cities DID NOT have nonstop service to Honolulu?

Atlanta
Denver
Houston
New York
Phoenix
San Diego

Bit of a guess -- I don't think any of them except SAN had nonstop service to HNL.

Right you are! New York used to via United's DC-8-62s (and would again) but in the 10-15-81 schedules had three airlines (AA, PA, UA) offering five flights, all of them one stop 747 service.

You're correct! :) US did have F in the early 80s, but I was fuzzy on exactly when and why it went away. In new hire training they told us if we were questioned why we didn't have F, the response should be "At US Air, every passenger is First Class" har har. But then we had things in Y like pre-departure OJ and wine, hot towels, etc. Different world 20+ years ago.

When F was officially (re)launched in August of 1989 at the PI merger, the logo on the service items was the old one in use since the name change from Allegheny, not the new one, so I knew something was up. http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...7/16349678.gif

Then there were the hot crew meals we had for a while that had the old logo with the "First Class" script. In a freezer somewhere for ~7 years? :eek:

Well, my January 1974 OAG shows no 4-engine jets on that route. A few years earlier there were three: EA and BN with Boeing 720s, and DL with Convair 880s. So it should be one of those three -- I'm going with Eastern.

I believe this was PanAm with a 707 via SEA.

Detroit, Baltimore, and Denver; possibly MSP, although WA added nonstop service MSP-HNL in 1974. WA did have nonstop service to HNL from Oakland and Anchorage.

Good Saturday Afternoon All!

Time to finally answer question 14) which I submitted back in post #1833......

This question concerned seasonal jet operations flown by United on a scheduled basis into Grand Junction, CO (GJT) on Saturdays during the ski season in February of 1976. UA was operating B727-100, B727-200 and DC-8 equipment into GJT back then. Quite a few of United's flights into Grand Junction were operated on a Saturday only schedule at the time and this was also true with regard to several other air carriers. United actually had only two daily flights from GJT back then. Both were flown with a B727-100 with a round trip routing of LAX-LAS-GJT-DEN.

Grand Junction was the hub for seasonal winter ski season airline service in western Colorado during the mid 70's. Other airports in the region, including Aspen (ASE), Durango (DRO), Eagle County Airport (EGE), Gunnison (GUC), Montrose (MTJ) and Steamboat Springs (served by two airfields at this time, being Yampa Valley Airport (HDN) and Steamboat Springs Airport (SBS) with the latter being in close proximity to the ski resorts in Steamboat) did not have jet service. All of these airfields with the exception of SBS would receive future jet service (although SBS would see Dash 7 service flown by Rocky Mountain Airways later on).

Aspen was served by Aspen Airways (AP) with Convair 580 turboprops and also by Rocky Mountain Airways (JC) with de Haviilland Canada DHC-6 Twin Otter aircraft. Most flights went to DEN.

Durango, Gunnison, Montrose and Yampa Valley Airport were all served by Frontier Airlines with the Convair 580 with service primarily to Denver although DRO also had flights to ABQ and PHX while HDN had service to SLC as well.

The primary air service from Eagle County Airport back then was provided by Rocky Mountain Airways with Twin Otter equipment with four (4) flights a day to DEN. EGE, of course, sees quite a few B757-200 flights during ski season these days. RMA also served Steamboat Springs Airport with the Twin Otter.

The Avon STOLport near Vail (created and later served exclusively with de Havilland Canada DHC-7 Dash 7 turboprops by Rocky Mountain Airways which was the launch customer for this STOL aircraft) was not yet in existence and the Telluride Airport (TEX) at a field elevation of 9,078 feet had yet to be constructed.

So if one wanted to fly directly into western Colorado for a ski vacation preferably in a jet back in the winter of 1976, Grand Junction was the place.

The question remains: how many jet flights did UA operate into GJT on a typical Saturday at this time? Here are the answers on a city by city basis.....and just for fun, I'll include service provided by Frontier Airlines (FL) and Western Airlines (WA) as well.

Chicago (ORD) - GJT:

UA - Two (2) nonstop DC-8 flights, one (1) nonstop B727-100 flight

Cleveland (CLE) - GJT:

UA - One (1) onestop DC-8 flight (via ORD)

Dallas/Ft. Worth (DFW) - GJT:

FL - Two (2) nonstop B737-200 flights

Denver (DEN) - GJT:

FL -One (1) B737-200 nonstop flight, four (4) nonstop CV-580 flights and two (2) onestop CV-580 flights

UA - Two (2) nonstop B727-100 flights

Las Vegas (LAS) - GJT:

UA - One (1) nonstop B727-100 flight

Los Angeles (LAX) - GJT:

UA - Three (3) nonstop DC-8 flights, one (1) nonstop B727-200 flight and one (1) onestop B727-100 flight (via LAS)

St. Louis (STL) - GJT:

FL- One (1) onestop B737-200 flight (via DEN)

Salt Lake City (SLC) - GJT:

FL - One (1) nonstop B737-200 flight, one (1) nonstop CV-580 flight

San Francisco (SFO) - GJT:

UA - Three (3) nonstop B727-100 flights

WA - Two (2) nonstop B737-200 flights

So on a typical Saturday back in February of 1976, little ole Grand Junction had nineteen (19) jet arrivals operated by either United, Frontier or Western with mainline equipment plus FL operated turboprop flights.

Hope everyone has a fine Thanksgiving! I'll attempt to post some more questions this coming weekend.....:cool:

Howdy folks ~

I just drove home from Healy, Alaska - 100 miles south and 10° warmer than here in Ester, where it's currently -3°F. That's actually a fairly pleasant temperature by our standards, especially since we've such a dry climate up here. The forecast calls for more of the same over the next few days, giving me cause to almost regret that I'll be leaving on Monday for Ketchikan, Alaska where it's about 40 degrees warmer but also rainier.

I say almost regret because in Ketchikan I'll be boarding the M.V. Taku for a two day cruise up the Inside Passage to Juneau. Thanksgiving and football will follow, then it's back aboard the Taku for the return sailing to Ketchikan. Dessert will come the next day when I take my 400th flight aboard an Alaska Airlines 737-400.

I did a trip similar to this late last year. There are some nice photos and some inconsequential text right HERE. Alaska's a great place to travel around any time of year.

As to the questions, here are the details:

6. You want to fly on a four engine jet between New York and Houston. One airline offers a single flight per day with one. Name the airline and the jet you’d have flown upon.

As of January 1973, Delta operated a single Convair 880 nonstop to go with its two 727-200 departures. Eastern chipped in with four daily flights, two with 727-100s and two with -200s. Braniff did not operate nonstops on this route though I did see a one stop 720 that would likely have been the flight I would have booked if I could go back in time.

13. You need to fly from Portland, Oregon to Fairbanks, Alaska. Although there's no nonstop service (and still isn't to this day), one airline provides a direct one-stop service. Name the airline and the aircraft used for this service.

Excellent recall, miniliq!. That would have been PA 901, a 707 departing each evening at 7:40pm and, after a brief stop in Seattle, arriving in Fairbanks at 10:50pm.

14. Which of these cities DID NOT have nonstop service to Honolulu?

Detroit
Baltimore
Oakland
Minneapolis
Anchorage
Denver

Here's the schedules for the cities that did have nonstops:

Detroit: UA 965 11:35a - 4:30p D8S
Baltimore: UA 975 11:30a - 5:00p D8S
Oakland: WA 581 10:40a - 1:50p B3F
Minneapolis: Direct service with WA & NW
Anchorage: WA 741 3:45p - 9:15p B3F (707-320) Friday only
Denver: Direct service with WA

If I didn't know better, my answer would likely have mirrored yours. Interesting how much service there was to Hilo with the big jets back in those days...

Many thanks to jlemon for the time and effort he put into detailing the seasonal flights serving Grand Junction, much less the rest of Colorado. In later years, United used to operate a daily DC-8 between Denver and Grand Junction, while Frontier also flew a 727-200 out of Denver for awhile. In February of 1978, I flew a Frontier 737 from Durango to Denver with a stop in Grand Junction. These days, the largest aircraft serving GJT would be an Allegiant DC-9-80 from LAS.

These would have been real pioneer 727-200 flights for Delta. They came to the 727 very late compared to other major carriers, and it was only four months previously that they merged with Northeast and inherited the aircraft for the first time. Not coming with a 727 crew base in Houston, and doubtless a limited number of such crews at JFK as well, it would be unlikely to reassign the aircraft away from Northeast's traditional Florida trunk routes in the winter peak. Then, late in January (the 23rd and 26th to be exact) Delta got their first two new 727-200s. Presumably this was their first ever route, taking over from the Convairs.

WHBM, the depth and breadth of your aviation knowledge never ceases to amaze. I thought I'd add a photo of the schedules per my January 1st, 1973 OAG. Unfortunately I couldn't get the print to show up clearly if I'd photographed the entire page showing the rest of the schedule, but this portion shows not only one of the nonstop 727-200s but also an additional 72S via MSY. I certainly concur with your reasoning on it being surprising to see the 72S scheduled into Houston. The 72S offered 20-30 more seats than the 880 and better economics with only three engines. Maybe DL wanted to see how the aircraft performed on a route a bit longer than those found on Northeast's eastern seaboard routes.


http://images49.fotki.com/v565/photo...JAN1973-vi.jpg

That's an interesting timetable page, and not just for the 727s, thank you for posting it.

DL1025, starting on Feb 1 1973 and routing through New Orleans, is one of the five rare Delta DC-10s, which were ordered at the height of the Lockheed Tristar bankruptcy scare in case Lockheed went under. Sold on to United before delivery as the Tristar programme had recovered, but then leased back for a couple of years by Delta to cover late delivery by Lockheed, three had arrived at Delta in 1972, and a fourth early in January 1973, which is presumably the one starting this flight from the beginning of February. Notice, also, that the DC-10 is operating out of La Guardia; must have been a handful operating such a large aircraft there.

Regarding the 727-200s, not only were two required for these Houston nonstop flights, but a third turns up routing through New Orleans, discontinued at the end of January, before the new Delta-ordered aircraft could really be got into service. These must have been former Northeast aircraft, asset-stripped from the Florida routes.

The Convair 880 had less seats than the 707/DC8, principally due to having only 5-across seating due to the narrow/dart-like fuselage adopted to give it a speed advantage over its competitors. Not only did this make it notably less cost-efficient but, as this page shows, in the days of really cheap fuel, it delivered no speed advantage at all, taking the same time as the other types on the route. It's difficult to avoid the conclusion that someone at Convair didn't understand basic aerodynamics.

Please correct me if I am in error, but I believe Delta also inherited B727-100 equipment from Northeast in addition to series 200 aircraft.

If memory serves me correctly, I think I saw a former Northeast B727-100 still wearing the distinctive "Yellowbird" livery but with Delta titles at Houston Intercontinental back when IAH was still a relatively new airport......

Yes, Northeast brought in a fleet of standard-length 727s as well, they had a modern fleet with no first-generation jets left. They also brought in a fleet of recent Fairchild FH-227 turboprops, which were painted up in Delta colours and continued in use for a few years on local routes based around Boston, until they were sold off to Air New England, when they continued to serve pretty much the same points.

The Fairchilds were not the only Delta turboprops. Which other such type did Delta have ?

Lockheed L-100 turboprop freighters, which were the civil version of the C-130 Hercules. Delta used these aircraft exclusively for cargo operations.

BTW, former Northeast Airlines B727-100 aircraft operated by Delta were apparently also used to serve such destinations as Birmingham, AL, Dallas/Ft. Worth, Jackson, MS and Shreveport back in early 1976.

From the Feb. 1, 1976 OAG......

DL 1227: ATL-BHM-JAN-SHV-DFW-LAX Equip: 727 - Daily op.

DL 1228: LAX-DFW-SHV-JAN-ATL Equip: 727 - Daily op.

Delta's ex-Northeast 727-95s were operated with 97 seats and were retired from Delta's fleet in October 1977.


http://images60.fotki.com/v367/photo...TA72795-vi.jpg
Delta's 727-95

I had forgotten that on the web there is a complete Delta timetable for March 1 1973, just two months after we are reviewing here, which includes the page at the back where Delta gave a cross-reference of aircraft types by flight, including specifying the difference between the 727-100 and the 727-200. Someone in the Atlanta office must have been a plane buff !

http://www.departedflights.com/DL030173p86.html

Furthermore the flight numbers are all grouped into blocks by aircraft type, as you can see looking at the page. 727s are 200-299, and 1200-1299. A second buff, this time in Ops !

Only four of the new Delta 727-200s had been delivered by the time of this schedule, so the bulk of them are the old Northeast fleet. You can see that, while many of them remain on the inherited Northeast routes, quite a number had started to invade Delta territory.

Following the links on the page will take you to scans of the individual pages.