The maximum you can get in a 737-200 is 130Y seats, and this is how the aircraft in holiday charter operation in Europe were configured, with 28" seat pitch (until the accident to the British Airtours 737 at Manchester in 1985, after which a seat had to be removed alongside each emergency exit, and they became 128Y. 124Y is just one seat row less than this utilitarian configuration, 29.5" pitch, and I would think would be a maximum for US all-coach configuration. Broadly speaking, you gain about 1.5 to 2 inches legroom for each seat row removed, and 106Y looks like about 35" pitch. Was that US F class pitch at the time ?

Regarding the "Champagne". Well, firstly you can't get away with calling that stuff by the C-word in Europe any longer if it's not actually from the Champagne region of France - there's an actual law of the European Union prohibiting it, pushed through by You-Know-Which country :). Anyway, before all this, in August 1971, I was sat in a Western 720B at SFO one evening waiting to depart for Vancouver BC with my Student Standby ticket and about 20 passengers in the aircraft (just one in F). Something mechanical went awry and we waited and waited on board for departure. The skipper made a further apologetic announcement about it and said that he had asked for some "adult-style refreshment" to be served, which was the aforementioned champagne of course. Along came the glasses and a drink - then another - then another, served this time by a steward I hadn't noticed before, until I realised it was one of the passengers who had hijacked a couple of bottles, one in each hand, towel over the arm, and was going along topping everybody's glasses up.

You didn't get that on British Airways at student fares in those days ! And I didn't have the knowledge then to say whether it was horrid or not :)

2) Air service--Palm Springs--using 707 aircraft.
Example #1-- 1974 American to DFW and ORD (1 stop to JFK)
Example #2-- 1979 TWA to PHX

2) Correct! And BTW, I believe the only aircraft type larger than the B707 to serve PSP on a scheduled basis was the DC-10.

2) PSP air service--FYI-- from PSP on American using DC10 as JLEMON indicated, you could fly nonstop to Tucson, Chicago, and Los Angeles (2/1/74)

I'll have a stab at a couple of these questions before heading out to watch the Packers-Giants game...

1) What airline served Santa Fe, NM (SAF) with Lockheed Constellation aircraft?

Amongst Constellation operators, New Mexico was TWA country so I'll go with TWA.

9) What was the first destination served by Alaska Airlines in southern California?

Just a distant memory from perusing old OAGs of the day but for some reason, Burbank comes to mind. So - that's my final answer.

16) In the spring of 1973, it was possible to fly direct with no change of plane from Presque Isle, ME (PQI) to Dallas Love Field (DAL) although there were five (5) intermediate stops en route. Identify the air carrier and the aircraft type used. And for even more bonus points, identify all five stops.

Delta used to serve PQI with DC-9-30s back then, so that's my airline and aircraft. As for routing, let's go with PQI-BOS-LGA-BHM-JAN-SHV-DFW. I'm feeling so good about this, I'll even say it was flight number 457. (Thanks to WHBM's link to that Delta timetable!)



Having flown a good number of flights on Western (and its 737s) when it offered "First Class" legroom, I remember that by comparison the seating configuration on its 737-200s in those later years seemed very tight indeed. Again, I wouldn't swear by 124, but who knows? From your above descriptions of seat pitch, I would think it more likely that WA's tighter configuration was probably in the 115 to 120 range.

By the way, anyone know if there were ever a CAB mandate on what constituted "First Class" legroom?

Although in many parts of the world "Champagne" has become synonymous with any sparkling wine, it's true that only sparkling white wine produced in the Champagne region of France can be called “Champagne”, at least in Europe where it’s been the law since 1891. Indeed, ownership of the word “Champagne” was so important to the French that they even had it reaffirmed in the Treaty of Versailles (1919).

However, the United States never ratified the Treaty of Versailles—not because of the champagne clause of course, but because the Republican-controlled Congress didn’t want to see the formation of a League of Nations. As such, in America it is perfectly legal to call sparkling wine “Champagne.” Out of respect to the French, most American producers opt to use the more generic term “Sparkling Wine.”

Having had a close family relative locally involved in a large scale alcohol distribution business in the Rocky Mountain West, I had ample opportunity (including back in the 1970s despite being underage through part of that decade) to enjoy a good variety of wines and sparkling wines over many years and many dinners. Some of those wines were very good and some were clearly inferior, but all of them we got were vastly discounted over their normal shelf prices :D. There really was no question however, even amongst casual drinkers, that Western's "Champagne" was nothing special. But then it didn't have to be. Flying wasn't always so business like back then ~ Some airlines such as Western actually strived to make it enjoyable - even fun - and in that spirit being served free "Champagne" was considered a nice treat, even if it was sickly sweet.

Indeed, and I think that at one point CP Air operated a seasonal weekend nonstop service YVR-PSP with a DC-10 during the winter months if memory serves me correctly.

At least I believe this to be true but have not been able to find evidence of this service in the OAGs or CP Air system timetables that I've accessed.....

I think these were actually charter flights, along with other services that CP and others (eg Wardair) operated at the time from Vancouver and Calgary etc down to Reno, Las Vegas, and other points around, mostly 737s. They were fairly regular, and were featured in ads in the CP winter timetables (though without actual schedules), just like the summer charters to Europe appeared in there. Unlikely to have been in the OAG.

Ah, but that's where I think I saw the schedule back in the day: in the North American edition of the OAG! To the best of my recollection, the two letter CP code was used and the equipment was listed as a DC 10.

Alas, I no longer have that particular OAG in my collection.....

Seat 2A: I'll have a stab at a couple of these questions before heading out to watch the Packers-Giants game...

1) What airline served Santa Fe, NM (SAF) with Lockheed Constellation aircraft?

Amongst Constellation operators, New Mexico was TWA country so I'll go with TWA.

9) What was the first destination served by Alaska Airlines in southern California?

Just a distant memory from perusing old OAGs of the day but for some reason, Burbank comes to mind. So - that's my final answer.

16) In the spring of 1973, it was possible to fly direct with no change of plane from Presque Isle, ME (PQI) to Dallas Love Field (DAL) although there were five (5) intermediate stops en route. Identify the air carrier and the aircraft type used. And for even more bonus points, identify all five stops.

Delta used to serve PQI with DC-9-30s back then, so that's my airline and aircraft. As for routing, let's go with PQI-BOS-LGA-BHM-JAN-SHV-DFW. I'm feeling so good about this, I'll even say it was flight number 457. (Thanks to WHBM's link to that Delta timetable!)

1) Correct! Santa Fe (SAF) was a stop on a TWA transcontinental route many years ago and was served with a Lockheed Constellation.

From the TWA January 12, 1959 system timetable.....

TW 87: BOS-LGA-MDW-MKC-ICT-AMA-SAF-ABQ-LAX

This flight departed Boston at 12:15pm EST and was scheduled to arrive in Santa Fe just before midnight MST. Arrival at the final destination, Los Angeles, was scheduled for 3:07am PST.

TWA had ceased service to Santa Fe by the early 1960's.

9) I believe the first destination to be served by Alaska Airlines in southern California was Palm Springs (PSP). Seasonal service during the winter months was flown with a B727-100 on a routing of SEA-SFO-PSP. At one point, AS was competing with Western B727-200 service on the SFO-PSP leg. And this leaves questions 10) and 11) yet to be answered....

16) You nailed this one, amigo, but with one minor correction! This D9S flight operated by DL actually arrived at DAL as DFW was not open yet. And thanks again as well to WHBM for the link to the DL timetable!

Just an associated question, but did the old OAG ever have what the rest-of-the-world ABC did, which is a category of "Scheduled Charter Flights", which very occasionally turned up in the listings where some flights were regularly operated, but somehow hadn't got all the licences to be a proper scheduled flight. There weren't many shown, but there was the odd one, separated by a subheading from the mainstream flights listed above them, if there were any on the route in question.

Not to my recollection with regard to both the North American and Worldwide editions of the OAG.

A distinction was made in the North American OAG for flights operated by intrastate air carriers (such as those services flown by Air California, Air Florida, PSA and Southwest before their respective route systems were expanded across state lines following deregulation) and also for those flights operated by commuter air carriers with smaller piston and/or turboprop equipment.

However, I do not believe any charter flights were listed - only scheduled services. For example, Sun Country Airlines operated a weekly nonstop flight on the weekends between Minneapolis/St. Paul (MSP) and Harlingen (HRL) in south Texas with a DC-10 on a seasonal basis one winter apparently for the "snowbird traffic". This schedule appeared in the OAG.

Good Afternoon All!

As usual, all quiz items concern scheduled passenger airline operations.

1) What airline served Santa Fe, NM (SAF) with Lockheed Constellation aircraft? ANSWERED

2) Identify two (2) airlines that operated Boeing 707 service into Palm Springs, CA (PSP). ANSWERED

3) What was unique concerning service provided by West Coast Airlines into Seattle? ANSWERED

4) Besides Seattle, West Coast Airlines served nine (9) other destinations with DC-9-10 series jet equipment in April of 1968. Identify all nine cities. ANSWERED

5) Also in April of 1968, Bonanza Air Lines operated DC-9-10 series aircraft into ten (10) different destinations. Name all ten. ANSWERED

6) With regard to the original Frontier Airlines (FL), what did Farmington, NM (FMN), Grand Island, NE (GRI), Laramie, WY (LAR), Manhattan, KS (MHK) and Redding, CA (RDD) all have in common during the 1980's specifically concerning their FL service?

7) What major U.S. airline served New Bedford, MA (EWB) in March of 1973 and what type of aircraft was used? ANSWERED

8) What was the first jet aircraft type operated by Alaska Airlines? ANSWERED

9) What was the first destination served by Alaska Airlines in southern California? ANSWERED

10) What was the second destination served by Alaska Airlines in southern California? ANSWERED

11) What was the third destination served by Alaska Airlines in southern California? ANSWERED

12) In June of 1969, Northeast Airlines was operating DC-9-30 jet service from Cleveland (CLE) nonstop to Chicago Midway (MDW) and Burlington, VT (BTV) with direct one stop service to Bangor, ME (BGR). These were the only three cities served by NE with nonstop or direct flights at this time where a connection was not required. What was unique about Northeast's Cleveland service at this time?

13) In February of 1976, what airline served Morristown, NJ (MMU) and what type of equipment did they fly?

14) Also in February of 1976, two airlines provided jet service from Panama City, FL (PFN) to Miami (MIA). One airline offered one daily flight and the other carrier flew twice daily. All service was operated on a direct, no change of plane basis with one, two or three stops en route. Identify both airlines and the respective aircraft types they operated on the route. And for bonus points, identify the stops. ANSWERED

15) Once again in February of 1976, only one airline was operating direct, no change of plane service from Miami (MIA) to Denver (DEN) with five daily services, all of which made one or two stops en route. Name the airline and the equipment used. And once again for bonus points, identify the stops. ANSWERED

16) In the spring of 1973, it was possible to fly direct with no change of plane from Presque Isle, ME (PQI) to Dallas Love Field (DAL) although there were five (5) intermediate stops en route. Identify the air carrier and the aircraft type used. And for even more bonus points, identify all five stops. ANSWERED

17) Identify every Boeing 737 operator in Canada to include airlines past and present. ANSWERED

18) It's December of 1971 and you are in Chicago. You want to travel to Los Angeles and you would prefer to fly first class on a wide body aircraft. However, being an airline enthusiast, you enjoy landings and takeoffs en route. Lo and behold, you discover a direct flight utilizing a wide body jet that makes two stops between ORD and LAX. What airline and aircraft type will you be flying on and where will you be stopping en route?

:cool:

Only four more questions remained unanswered......

One would be Burbank, the other Ontario, but I'm not sure of the order. Since a lot of people used ONT to get to PSP, and PSP was already being served, I'm going to guess BUR was the 2nd, ONT the 3rd. 50-50 chance!

AeroWesty is correct! Alaska Airlines initiated service into Burbank (BUR, which is now known as Bob Hope Airport) in March of 1981. This was followed by new service into Ontario (ONT) in June of 1981. At this point, AS began pairing BUR and ONT together for their service to and from SEA. For example, B727-200 equipment was operated on a SEA-ONT-BUR-SEA routing. The first time I ever flew on Alaska Air was from ANC to BUR with a connection in SEA and an intermediate stop in ONT on the SEA to BUR flight (I had traveled north on Western in coach on board a 72S on a single plane LAX-SLC-ANC flight).

Great service back then on Alaska, BTW, as I was in the front cabin on 72S aircraft on both flights - this was back when AS served real steaks to their first class customers! And the red wine wasn't too shabby, either!