Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.
Oct 12, 2014, 9:26 pm
#6136
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late 1981...
8. You want to fly from Hartford to Kansas City. Though you had expected to have to make a connection in New York or Chicago, you’re surprised to find that a single daily nonstop flight is offered by this airline. Please identify the airline and – if you feel up to it – the aircraft to be flown.
8. You want to fly from Hartford to Kansas City. Though you had expected to have to make a connection in New York or Chicago, you’re surprised to find that a single daily nonstop flight is offered by this airline. Please identify the airline and – if you feel up to it – the aircraft to be flown.
21.Pacific Northern's logo was the state flag, and their advertising theme was "The Alaska Flag Line"
Oct 12, 2014, 10:14 pm
#6137
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IIRC, Eastern didn't gain access to San Juan with its mainline jets until taking over Caribair in 1973.
Ah, but the June 1, 1965 Eastern system timetable does list nonstop DC-8 service to San Juan from New York JFK, Newark, Baltimore, Chicago, Philadelphia and Miami. And, BTW, this EA timetable also lists Caribair connecting service to St. Thomas and St. Croix flown with either DC-3 or Convair equipment....
I reckon I didn't remember correctly
Good call! Didn't Caribair operate codeshare type flights on behalf of Eastern to the Virgin Islands?
17. When American Airlines introduced jet service in 1959, it had a special name for First and Coach Class services aboard its 707s. Any of the cognoscenti know what those names were?
I believe American called their first class "Mercury Service". Coach was named "Royal Coachman Service" . Aircraft was the Boeing 707 "Jet Flagship".
Close enough! The one slight difference is that my reference says the 707 First Class service was called "Deluxe Mercury" - assumedly to differentiate it from the longstanding DC-6 Mercury flights.
26. It’s late spring of 1969 and from its home base of Seattle Alaska Airlines offers nonstop service to only two destinations. Identify the two cities so served.
Anchorage (ANC) and Sitka (SIT).
Correct! The timetable indicates only JET for the aircraft type but I'm thinking by then it must've been 727-100 service for the most part as the 720s didn't show up until 1973. However, I show the lone Convair 990 being operated or at least under lease until October of 1969.
27. When Braniff’s new Boeing 707-227 “El Dorado Jet” commenced service December of 1959, it was trumpeted as the “World’s Fastest Jetliner”. By 1961, that title no longer appeared on Braniff promotional materials. By then, another U.S. airline was promoting its jet as the “World’s Fastest Jetliner”. Identify the airline and the jet.
I'll guess this was American with the Convair 990.
This was answered above by Indelaware with TWA's 880 (January 1961) as well as Northeast's 880 three months later (April 1961). That said, please feel free to submit any links to support adding American's 990 to this speedy group.
Ah, but the June 1, 1965 Eastern system timetable does list nonstop DC-8 service to San Juan from New York JFK, Newark, Baltimore, Chicago, Philadelphia and Miami. And, BTW, this EA timetable also lists Caribair connecting service to St. Thomas and St. Croix flown with either DC-3 or Convair equipment....
I reckon I didn't remember correctly
Good call! Didn't Caribair operate codeshare type flights on behalf of Eastern to the Virgin Islands? 17. When American Airlines introduced jet service in 1959, it had a special name for First and Coach Class services aboard its 707s. Any of the cognoscenti know what those names were?
I believe American called their first class "Mercury Service". Coach was named "Royal Coachman Service" . Aircraft was the Boeing 707 "Jet Flagship".
Close enough! The one slight difference is that my reference says the 707 First Class service was called "Deluxe Mercury" - assumedly to differentiate it from the longstanding DC-6 Mercury flights.
26. It’s late spring of 1969 and from its home base of Seattle Alaska Airlines offers nonstop service to only two destinations. Identify the two cities so served.
Anchorage (ANC) and Sitka (SIT).
Correct! The timetable indicates only JET for the aircraft type but I'm thinking by then it must've been 727-100 service for the most part as the 720s didn't show up until 1973. However, I show the lone Convair 990 being operated or at least under lease until October of 1969.
27. When Braniff’s new Boeing 707-227 “El Dorado Jet” commenced service December of 1959, it was trumpeted as the “World’s Fastest Jetliner”. By 1961, that title no longer appeared on Braniff promotional materials. By then, another U.S. airline was promoting its jet as the “World’s Fastest Jetliner”. Identify the airline and the jet.
I'll guess this was American with the Convair 990.
This was answered above by Indelaware with TWA's 880 (January 1961) as well as Northeast's 880 three months later (April 1961). That said, please feel free to submit any links to support adding American's 990 to this speedy group.
Oct 12, 2014, 10:30 pm
#6138
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8. (In 1981) You want to fly from Hartford to Kansas City. Though you had expected to have to make a connection in New York or Chicago, you’re surprised to find that a single daily nonstop flight is offered by this airline. Please identify the airline and – if you feel up to it – the aircraft to be flown.
I can only place Delta, TWA, and United at both BDL and MCI ... this almost certainly wouldn't have been a DL route, and while TW later started using MCI as a mid-con alternative to St Louis (I went SAN-MCI-DCA in 1984) I don't believe they were doing so in 1981 ... so that leaves UA who would have been running a 727, probably a standard-size -22
Way to work it out, J! United it was, operating a 727-200.
9. (In 1981) Please identify the only airline that offers direct service from Buffalo, Rochester and Hartford to Sarasota, FL.
direct =/= nonstop ... how about Eastern, probably all routing via ATL
My understanding has always been that "Nonstop" means exactly that whereas "Direct" means one or more stops but no change of plane enroute. That said, the airline in this instance was not Eastern. Please... guess again!
21. Which airline called itself “The Flag Line of the 49th State”?
Pacific Northern's logo was the state flag, and their advertising theme was "The Alaska Flag Line"
Right on, J! Pacific Northern it was. Sadly, they operated a bit before my time...
I can only place Delta, TWA, and United at both BDL and MCI ... this almost certainly wouldn't have been a DL route, and while TW later started using MCI as a mid-con alternative to St Louis (I went SAN-MCI-DCA in 1984) I don't believe they were doing so in 1981 ... so that leaves UA who would have been running a 727, probably a standard-size -22
Way to work it out, J! United it was, operating a 727-200.
9. (In 1981) Please identify the only airline that offers direct service from Buffalo, Rochester and Hartford to Sarasota, FL.
direct =/= nonstop ... how about Eastern, probably all routing via ATL
My understanding has always been that "Nonstop" means exactly that whereas "Direct" means one or more stops but no change of plane enroute. That said, the airline in this instance was not Eastern. Please... guess again!
21. Which airline called itself “The Flag Line of the 49th State”?
Pacific Northern's logo was the state flag, and their advertising theme was "The Alaska Flag Line"
Right on, J! Pacific Northern it was. Sadly, they operated a bit before my time...
Oct 12, 2014, 10:36 pm
#6139
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Alright gang - that's it for me for the night. Tomorrow I fly to Tampa for dinner with Mr. B, my old buddy and landlord of years past.
You'll find the remainder of the questions HERE.
Happy contrails!
You'll find the remainder of the questions HERE.
Happy contrails!
Oct 13, 2014, 5:11 am
#6140
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29. In late fall of 1968, this airline operated the last scheduled Constellation passenger flight in North America......... I think this was Nordair, operating L-1049s from Montreal up to Frobisher in the NWT (nowadays known as Iqaluit in Nunavut).......... further investigation regarding Nordair's L-1049 revealed THIS tidbit, indicating Nordair operated its Connie until 1969. I've not been able to verify a final flight date
Canairelief http://vanguardcanada.com/the-birth-of-canairelief/ was part of the extraordinary airlift that took place in 1969 during the Nigerian civil war, operating from Portuguese and Spanish colonial islands just off Nigeria into the blockaded half of the country. Being a church-backed organisation they had no aircrews and thus ex-Nordair pilots and engineers were those handling the flying. There were other aid operators who ran DC-7s and C97s, plus a substantial operation doing gun-running for the blockaded side, run by an extraordinary character (even for gun-running) called Hank Wharton, who came from Miami and had bought up the TAP Portugal Constellation fleet which did the same routings each night. There was an uneasy alliance between the two groupings. Wharton's crews had the best hotels and the best pay, and were real freelances and effectively mercenaries, and painted different registrations from different obscure countries onto their aircraft each flight. Apart from the aircraft at Sao Tome I linked to earlier, there were two Constellations that lasted as restaurants around Europe where they had been abandoned by Wharton after the authorities caught up with them - there was one at Faro in Portugal and the other in Malta. Both have now been scrapped but they lasted until around the year 2000, and I caught up with both of them during various holidays.
Oct 13, 2014, 10:41 am
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Didn't Caribair operate codeshare type flights on behalf of Eastern to the Virgin Islands?
I do not believe these Caribair connecting flights were actually codeshare flights as I do not think they had "EA" flight numbers. Instead, this Caribair service appears to have been more of an interline type arrangement.
Caribair's SJU-STT and SJU-STX flights are listed in Eastern's system timetables back in 1965 and 1967. In 1965, the equipment operated between San Juan and the USVI was either "DC-3" or "CONVAIR" and in 1967 the aircraft type was "PROP JET" (I believe the latter was the Convair 640). It also appears these services were operated with Caribair flight numbers and not with Eastern flight numbers.
Eastern also listed the flights of other commuter air carriers in subsequent timetables; however, once again these do not appear to be codeshares but were of an interline nature instead. For example, in the back section of a 1972 EA timetable, connecting flight information is listed for Commuter Airlines, Inc., between Washington National and Binghamton, NY, and Suburban Airlines between Washington National and Reading, PA. Reference is also made to DHC-6 Twin Otter service operated by Shawnee Airlines from the "Walt Disney World STOL Airport" (DWS, which was actually located on the premises of the Disney theme park) to Orlando (MCO) and Tampa (TPA).
So who was the first to actually codeshare with their commuter/regional partners in the U.S.? It may have been Allegheny back during the late 1960's via the "Allegheny Commuter" system. An AL system timetable from 1969 references this commuter service operated with Beech 99 or Beech A-80 Queenair equipment into Danville, IL, Hagerstown, MD and Salisbury/Ocean City, MD; however, the actual "independent corporation" operators are not identified. It does appears these flights were operated with "AL" flight numbers although they were also listed as commuter air carrier operations.
I do not believe these Caribair connecting flights were actually codeshare flights as I do not think they had "EA" flight numbers. Instead, this Caribair service appears to have been more of an interline type arrangement.
Caribair's SJU-STT and SJU-STX flights are listed in Eastern's system timetables back in 1965 and 1967. In 1965, the equipment operated between San Juan and the USVI was either "DC-3" or "CONVAIR" and in 1967 the aircraft type was "PROP JET" (I believe the latter was the Convair 640). It also appears these services were operated with Caribair flight numbers and not with Eastern flight numbers.
Eastern also listed the flights of other commuter air carriers in subsequent timetables; however, once again these do not appear to be codeshares but were of an interline nature instead. For example, in the back section of a 1972 EA timetable, connecting flight information is listed for Commuter Airlines, Inc., between Washington National and Binghamton, NY, and Suburban Airlines between Washington National and Reading, PA. Reference is also made to DHC-6 Twin Otter service operated by Shawnee Airlines from the "Walt Disney World STOL Airport" (DWS, which was actually located on the premises of the Disney theme park) to Orlando (MCO) and Tampa (TPA).
So who was the first to actually codeshare with their commuter/regional partners in the U.S.? It may have been Allegheny back during the late 1960's via the "Allegheny Commuter" system. An AL system timetable from 1969 references this commuter service operated with Beech 99 or Beech A-80 Queenair equipment into Danville, IL, Hagerstown, MD and Salisbury/Ocean City, MD; however, the actual "independent corporation" operators are not identified. It does appears these flights were operated with "AL" flight numbers although they were also listed as commuter air carrier operations.
Last edited by jlemon; Oct 13, 2014 at 10:47 am
Oct 13, 2014, 11:24 am
#6142
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Back in those times code share wasn't particularly necessary because under IATA rules any connection onto another carrier gave the same revenue split between the two operators according to the IATA formula, so there was no real advantage in doing it. There also weren't that many minor routes, relevant to a codeshare, which ran to more than one carrier, so everyone could connect equally onto the one commuter operator. The real advantage of the Allegheny Commuter setup was it allowed them to operate minor routes they were contracted by their Local Service Airline licence to provide, with aircraft smaller than they had in their fleet.
United had a similar quandary on their once-daily Salt Lake-Elko-Ely-Reno operation once they gave up the propeller DC-6; their licence required the route, the airports weren't suitable for jets, and the revenue was so small nobody else would take it on commercially. They maintained a lone DC-6 into 1970 for the flight, and in the end subcontracted it out to Frontier on a Cv580, which I believe had to use UA flight numbers because that's what the licence said.
There were a few cases where major carriers actually subcontracted smaller carriers to operate their own flights; for quite some time Sao Paolo in Brazil had no major jet runway airport, and Varig operated connecting propeller flights to Rio. Foreign carriers, to compete, would charter from one of the other Brazilian carriers to operate for them on the same basis. Likewise BOAC/BA had a couple of aircraft, from different carriers over time, which connected from Edinburgh and Belfast to Prestwick to connect with their daily flight to New York with BOAC flight numbers, this lasted for many years.
There was another longstanding codeshare in Ireland, where for bizarre reasons Aer Lingus (code EI) could only operate in Europe, and it was a separate paper entity, Irish International (code IN) which actually did the transatlantic flights, so the Dublin-Shannon leg of these flights ran for years with a codeshared EI/IN flight number. Strangely this short hop was decidedly popular for a quick and cheap bit of air experience, and many an Irish child got their first ever flight as a birthday treat on it - for many years on a 747.
Oct 13, 2014, 12:53 pm
#6143
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6. What was the name of Eastern Airlines’ first membership only airport lounge?
13. These days, Delta is the go-to airline between Salt Lake City and Anchorage. Back in 1981 however, it was a different airline that offered the only direct flight between SLC and ANC with a single, daily departure. Which airline was this?
13. Wild guess time involving an unlikely airline: Wien Air Alaska (WC) operating single class Boeing 737-200 equipment on a routing of SLC-BOI-SEA-ANC. And the northbound flight may have actually originated at PHX.
Oct 13, 2014, 1:21 pm
#6144
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... in the back section of a 1972 EA timetable, connecting flight information is listed for Commuter Airlines, Inc., between Washington National and Binghamton, NY
... the "Allegheny Commuter" system. An AL system timetable from 1969 references this commuter service operated with Beech 99 or Beech A-80 Queenair equipment into Danville, IL, Hagerstown, MD and Salisbury/Ocean City, MD; however, the actual "independent corporation" operators are not identified. It does appears these flights were operated with "AL" flight numbers although they were also listed as commuter air carrier operations.
... the "Allegheny Commuter" system. An AL system timetable from 1969 references this commuter service operated with Beech 99 or Beech A-80 Queenair equipment into Danville, IL, Hagerstown, MD and Salisbury/Ocean City, MD; however, the actual "independent corporation" operators are not identified. It does appears these flights were operated with "AL" flight numbers although they were also listed as commuter air carrier operations.
I logged BGM-DCA in Nov 72 and the return in Jan 73 on Commuter Airlines ... a bonus point to whoever -- besides jlemon, who has resources in hand
--- can identify the aircraftI also flew a couple of DCA-BAL trips on AL Beech 99s in the 74-75 timeframe, but by that time the operator was actually published ... another bonus point to the first to name the outfit
Oct 13, 2014, 1:49 pm
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7. Lately, the Las Vegas to Reno route has been a surprising source of trivia here at the OTA&AQ. Some of you may remember that in 1984, the only carrier operating nonstop flights between these two cities was – improbably – Eastern Airlines. In the fall of 1981 however, five airlines competed between LAS and RNO with nonstop flights. Can you identify them?
* Air California - 73S
* Braniff International - 72S
* Delta -72S
* Eastern - 727 or 72S
* Republic - DC9 or D9S
I believe these were tag routes for BN, DL, EA and OC while RC was probably still trying to figure out what to do with the routes they had inherited from RW (and I think the RNO-LAS route had been previously flown by Air West predecessor Bonanza Air Lines back in the day with the DC9)......
Last edited by jlemon; Oct 13, 2014 at 1:55 pm
Oct 13, 2014, 2:29 pm
#6146
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So who was the first to actually codeshare with their commuter/regional partners in the U.S.? It may have been Allegheny back during the late 1960's via the "Allegheny Commuter" system. An AL system timetable from 1969 references this commuter service operated with Beech 99 or Beech A-80 Queenair equipment into Danville, IL, Hagerstown, MD and Salisbury/Ocean City, MD; however, the actual "independent corporation" operators are not identified. It does appears these flights were operated with "AL" flight numbers although they were also listed as commuter air carrier operations.
In 1993, in order to protect the Piedmont name (rather than the Henson name), US Air Group's Henson Aviation subsidiary renamed Piedmont Airlines.
Piedmont Airlines, Inc f/k/a Henson Aviation remains as an operating entity - although I am not sure if it is a direct subsidiary of AMR Group, Inc or if it is owned by AMR Group's American Airlines, Inc. -- not that it matters.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140106.../history.shtml. Cf. http://piedmont-airlines.com/Our-Company/History
http://www.richardhensonfoundation.o...line-business/
Last edited by Indelaware; Oct 13, 2014 at 2:35 pm
Oct 13, 2014, 3:20 pm
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30 - I think EA advertised "Golden Falcon" service in F on their jet fleet in the early 60s ... perhaps "Silver Falcon" in Y
Oct 13, 2014, 7:14 pm
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United had a similar quandary on their once-daily Salt Lake-Elko-Ely-Reno operation once they gave up the propeller DC-6; their licence required the route, the airports weren't suitable for jets, and the revenue was so small nobody else would take it on commercially. They maintained a lone DC-6 into 1970 for the flight, and in the end subcontracted it out to Frontier on a Cv580, which I believe had to use UA flight numbers because that's what the licence said.
UA 837: Salt Lake City (SLC) 7:30a - 7:23a Ely (ELY) 7:40a - 8:12a Elko (EKO) 8:33a - 9:23a Reno (RNO) 9:50a - 10:43a San Francisco (SFO)
Equip: CV5
Op: Daily
UA 816: San Francisco (SFO) 11:45a - 12:41p Reno (RNO) 1:05p - 1:58p Elko (EKO) 2:20p - 2:52p Ely (ELY) 3:10p - 5:00p Salt Lake City (SLC)
Equip: CV5
Op: Daily
I wonder if the Frontier aircraft flown on the route was painted in the United livery?
Also interesting to note.....there were only two flights a day from Reno to Salt Lake City at this time: the aforementioned CV-580 two stop service and a nonstop flown by Western with a Boeing 720 in an all coach (Y) configuration.
However, these subcontracted flights operated by Frontier did not last too much longer as by the late 1970's United was flying Boeing 737-200 service on the same SFO-RNO-EKO-ELY-SLC round trip routing. This apparently lasted until the early 1980's when UA ceased serving Elko and Ely altogether. It also appears that Ely was smallest destination, population-wise, ever to be served on a daily basis year round by United with mainline jet equipment. Elko was subsequently served by another Boeing 737-200 operator, Casino Express.
Last edited by jlemon; Oct 14, 2014 at 5:50 am Reason: additional info
Oct 13, 2014, 8:11 pm
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17- and 18-min thru stops on a DC-6 ... I almost wonder if they even shut down engines 3 and 4
Oct 14, 2014, 5:20 am
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And unless the OAG is in error, UA 837 heading westbound made a seven (7) minute stop at Ely.
I'll would not be surprised if the turboprop engine on the opposite side of the passenger boarding door of the Convair 580 was not shut down during this very brief stop...
I'll would not be surprised if the turboprop engine on the opposite side of the passenger boarding door of the Convair 580 was not shut down during this very brief stop...