Old Timer's Airline Quiz and Discussion.
Jan 18, 2021, 12:58 pm
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82. (1992) If you’re looking to travel from Chicago’s south side to Orlando, Florida, there’s only one airline to call with three almost daily flights between Midway and Orlando. The correct answer requires only the name of the airline.
I was going to say Midway Airlines, but the original shutdown in 1991 and the renewal airline started operations in 1993, so it can't be them. I am going with Midwest Express as a Seasonal service
Midway Express maybe, but Midwest Express? Did they ever fly into any Chicago airport? Not saying they didn't, but if they did I must've missed it. We're looking for a different airline, one which at this point you may find surprising. Please, guess again!
I was going to say Midway Airlines, but the original shutdown in 1991 and the renewal airline started operations in 1993, so it can't be them. I am going with Midwest Express as a Seasonal service
Midway Express maybe, but Midwest Express? Did they ever fly into any Chicago airport? Not saying they didn't, but if they did I must've missed it. We're looking for a different airline, one which at this point you may find surprising. Please, guess again!
Jan 18, 2021, 1:09 pm
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61. (1997) From the bad old days of 1984 when the New York City to Las Vegas market was served by a single all-coach DC-8 flight from Capitol Air, in 1997 it’s now served by no less than five airlines offering nonstop service from either Newark or Kennedy. Can you identify each of the five airlines and the New York area airport it serves Las Vegas from.
Just a cleanup question. Didn't HP also fly to LAS from EWR in 1997?
When I first looked at the schedules, I thought so because there were a lot of HP flights listed out of EWR. Upon closer inspection however - at least per the OAG I referenced fr this question - all of HP's nonstop flights were code-shares with Continental operated with Continental equipment. HP did however fly into Newark and did offer a one stop direct flight to LAS via CMH.
Just a cleanup question. Didn't HP also fly to LAS from EWR in 1997?
When I first looked at the schedules, I thought so because there were a lot of HP flights listed out of EWR. Upon closer inspection however - at least per the OAG I referenced fr this question - all of HP's nonstop flights were code-shares with Continental operated with Continental equipment. HP did however fly into Newark and did offer a one stop direct flight to LAS via CMH.
Jan 18, 2021, 1:11 pm
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Jan 18, 2021, 1:53 pm
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Originally Posted by Seat 2A
I believe you are the first, YVR, so congratulations! Air Malta operated a once weekly Saturday only flight between Malta and Manchester. The aircraft would appear to have been leased (or purchased) from BEA (WHBM would know for sure) and the schedule looked to be more conducive to freight operations. Check it out!
Air Malta MG 319 Malta (MLA) 1205a-215a Manchester (MAN) TRD Sa only 1456 miles
Air Malta MG 319 Malta (MLA) 1205a-215a Manchester (MAN) TRD Sa only 1456 miles
You just know I can't resist rebutting this one. "Air Malta" (actually it still had its very old-fashioned name "The Malta Airline") was just a paper organisation, 90% owned by BEA, rest by the Maltese government. They had no aircraft of their own, nor pilots - may have had a few cabin crew, and probably staff at Malta airport. BEA ran out each week a Viscount from London which did local trips to Rome, Sicily, North Africa etc, not more than one aircraft needed. A substantial trunk run was to London, multiple trips a day, a route where for various political reasons they rebutted the holiday airlines. Whether these were BE, BE/MG one way and MG/BE the other, or whatever, was by the by. But a wholly BEA operation. Not even stickers on the aircraft.
What may look like a "freight operation" is a perfectly normal European holiday flight (for that's what these really were) operation. Malta is about 3 hours flying (and 1 hour clock change) from London. So, outward, Heathrow 1900, into Malta 2300. Turn round, Malta 0005, Manchester 0215. Crew change, set off back, Manchester 0330, into Malta 0730. Finally depart Malta 0845, into Heathrow 1045. This sort of arrangement is universally known in UK aviation as a "W", (sort of) reflecting how it appears on the ops board, coming back to a secondary point that has no based aircraft. You still get them from the likes of Jet2 or Tui. The fare charged for the overnight sectors is of course less than for those convenient daytime ones.
Malta airport in those days was still fully a key RAF base, with a civilian terminal in the corner. The number 1 industry (the island is surprisingly urban and industrial) was always UK military traffic from all three services. The dockyards for the Royal Navy were immense, and there was much associated traffic. But tourism was starting to boom there.
Like I said, WHBM will know for sure.
As to "Air Malta", I went with the name later seen on the 707s and BAC-111s. Gratingly incorrect though it may have been, it is but one of many factually incorrect tidbits I've spat out over the years here at the OTAQ&D and, rest assured, there will be many more. As such, I am ever so appreciative for your patient forbearance as it has been well tested here on my behalf. Rest assured, it will continue to be, so thanks in advance!
It should be noted that I never stated that the flight highlighted was (or even looked like) a freight operation. What I did say was that the times of its operation "looked to be more conducive to freight operations". Looked to be, appeared to be - whatever. Even I know that if it were operated as a freight flight, it wouldn't have been listed in the OAG. But enough of pesky semantics. We'll just have to muddle through them as best we can. It should also be noted that the flight is listed as offering "YN" fare, so at least the passengers got a bit of a savings in exchange for having to fly such an awful hour - especially for such a short flight. We have many similarly timed flights from Alaska down to Seattle, departing around 1-2am and arriving Seattle in time to connect to the bank of morning departures to points east. Flight time down to Seattle is about 3 hours - far too short to get a decent rest enroute - especially in a modern slimline type airline seat with minimal recline regardless of class flown. I used to fly those flights every now and again. When I was younger I was able to more readily recover from the minimal sleep enroute. These days - my whole day is ruined after one of those flights. As such, I catch the late afternoon flight down to Seattle, get a hotel for the night and, well rested, continue on the next morning. It's worth the extra $70 and thankfully I'm not overly put out with the additional cost.
My remaining question is this. If you had asked me "what BEA Trident services ran to Manchester in 1972", I would immediately have answered "None". So whatever else did BEA use Tridents on through there ?
BEA operated a single daily Trident into Manchester from London Heathrow. It's showing as a Y class only operation.. Here's the schedule:
BEA BE 4054 London (LHR) 800a-845a Manchester (MAN) Trident
By the way, should any of you desire photographic evidence of any given schedules, please don't hesitate to request it. I can easily photograph any given page, transfer it to my laptop and send a copy off to you as a PM attachment. Or I can post them here. Just ask.
What may look like a "freight operation" is a perfectly normal European holiday flight (for that's what these really were) operation. Malta is about 3 hours flying (and 1 hour clock change) from London. So, outward, Heathrow 1900, into Malta 2300. Turn round, Malta 0005, Manchester 0215. Crew change, set off back, Manchester 0330, into Malta 0730. Finally depart Malta 0845, into Heathrow 1045. This sort of arrangement is universally known in UK aviation as a "W", (sort of) reflecting how it appears on the ops board, coming back to a secondary point that has no based aircraft. You still get them from the likes of Jet2 or Tui. The fare charged for the overnight sectors is of course less than for those convenient daytime ones.
Malta airport in those days was still fully a key RAF base, with a civilian terminal in the corner. The number 1 industry (the island is surprisingly urban and industrial) was always UK military traffic from all three services. The dockyards for the Royal Navy were immense, and there was much associated traffic. But tourism was starting to boom there.
Like I said, WHBM will know for sure.
As to "Air Malta", I went with the name later seen on the 707s and BAC-111s. Gratingly incorrect though it may have been, it is but one of many factually incorrect tidbits I've spat out over the years here at the OTAQ&D and, rest assured, there will be many more. As such, I am ever so appreciative for your patient forbearance as it has been well tested here on my behalf. Rest assured, it will continue to be, so thanks in advance!
It should be noted that I never stated that the flight highlighted was (or even looked like) a freight operation. What I did say was that the times of its operation "looked to be more conducive to freight operations". Looked to be, appeared to be - whatever. Even I know that if it were operated as a freight flight, it wouldn't have been listed in the OAG. But enough of pesky semantics. We'll just have to muddle through them as best we can. It should also be noted that the flight is listed as offering "YN" fare, so at least the passengers got a bit of a savings in exchange for having to fly such an awful hour - especially for such a short flight. We have many similarly timed flights from Alaska down to Seattle, departing around 1-2am and arriving Seattle in time to connect to the bank of morning departures to points east. Flight time down to Seattle is about 3 hours - far too short to get a decent rest enroute - especially in a modern slimline type airline seat with minimal recline regardless of class flown. I used to fly those flights every now and again. When I was younger I was able to more readily recover from the minimal sleep enroute. These days - my whole day is ruined after one of those flights. As such, I catch the late afternoon flight down to Seattle, get a hotel for the night and, well rested, continue on the next morning. It's worth the extra $70 and thankfully I'm not overly put out with the additional cost.
My remaining question is this. If you had asked me "what BEA Trident services ran to Manchester in 1972", I would immediately have answered "None". So whatever else did BEA use Tridents on through there ?
BEA operated a single daily Trident into Manchester from London Heathrow. It's showing as a Y class only operation.. Here's the schedule:
BEA BE 4054 London (LHR) 800a-845a Manchester (MAN) Trident
By the way, should any of you desire photographic evidence of any given schedules, please don't hesitate to request it. I can easily photograph any given page, transfer it to my laptop and send a copy off to you as a PM attachment. Or I can post them here. Just ask.
Last edited by Seat 2A; Jan 18, 2021 at 2:33 pm
Jan 18, 2021, 2:03 pm
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Whew! Almost done! Just a reminder - All questions are based upon SCHEDULED flights.
77. (1992) You love Cozumel! You and your family have vacationed there five out of the last eight years and this year will make your sixth visit. Normally you’d have to make a connection somewhere, but not this year. There’s a new one-stop direct flight out of Boston Logan that’ll get you into Cozumel by midday. Better yet, you’ll even be served a snack and lunch enroute. Identify the airline, the enroute stop and the aircraft please.
It's not an AA 72S via DFW nor an NW A320 via MEM. It is a 727-100
82. (1992) If you’re looking to travel from Chicago’s south side to Orlando, Florida, there’s only one airline to call with three almost daily flights between Midway and Orlando. The correct answer requires only the name of the airline.
It's not Kiwi International or ATA. Or Southwest or Northwest or Delta... Nor is it Midway Express or Braniff or Sun Country
83. (1984) Identify the three airlines that in 1984 operated their respective aircraft in an all First Class configuration, i.e. 2x2 seating throughout the aircraft. Identify the aircraft type each airline operates as well.
Air One and Midwest Express identified so far... It is not Regent/MGM Grand but the aircraft was a 727-100
85. (1997) You need to fly your mother up to Seattle from her home in Oklahoma City so that she can see her granddaughter graduate cum laude from The University of Washington. Last time she visited she had a lamentable experience while connecting through Denver where her luggage got lost for three weeks! Her return flight through Salt Lake City wasn’t much better. Aren’t there any nonstops? she pleaded. Sorry Mom, no. However, there is a single direct flight every day. You’ll make two stops along the way but neither you nor your baggage will have to get off the plane until you reach Seattle. Identify the airline, the two enroute stops and the aircraft type.
A N S W E R E D
77. (1992) You love Cozumel! You and your family have vacationed there five out of the last eight years and this year will make your sixth visit. Normally you’d have to make a connection somewhere, but not this year. There’s a new one-stop direct flight out of Boston Logan that’ll get you into Cozumel by midday. Better yet, you’ll even be served a snack and lunch enroute. Identify the airline, the enroute stop and the aircraft please.
It's not an AA 72S via DFW nor an NW A320 via MEM. It is a 727-100
82. (1992) If you’re looking to travel from Chicago’s south side to Orlando, Florida, there’s only one airline to call with three almost daily flights between Midway and Orlando. The correct answer requires only the name of the airline.
It's not Kiwi International or ATA. Or Southwest or Northwest or Delta... Nor is it Midway Express or Braniff or Sun Country
83. (1984) Identify the three airlines that in 1984 operated their respective aircraft in an all First Class configuration, i.e. 2x2 seating throughout the aircraft. Identify the aircraft type each airline operates as well.
Air One and Midwest Express identified so far... It is not Regent/MGM Grand but the aircraft was a 727-100
85. (1997) You need to fly your mother up to Seattle from her home in Oklahoma City so that she can see her granddaughter graduate cum laude from The University of Washington. Last time she visited she had a lamentable experience while connecting through Denver where her luggage got lost for three weeks! Her return flight through Salt Lake City wasn’t much better. Aren’t there any nonstops? she pleaded. Sorry Mom, no. However, there is a single direct flight every day. You’ll make two stops along the way but neither you nor your baggage will have to get off the plane until you reach Seattle. Identify the airline, the two enroute stops and the aircraft type.
A N S W E R E D
Last edited by Seat 2A; Jan 18, 2021 at 8:18 pm
Jan 18, 2021, 2:05 pm
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82. (1992) If you’re looking to travel from Chicago’s south side to Orlando, Florida, there’s only one airline to call with three almost daily flights between Midway and Orlando. The correct answer requires only the name of the airline.
It's not Kiwi International or ATA. Or Southwest or Northwest or Delta... Or even Air Ceylon...
).And I note the word "nonstop" does not appear in your question....so perhaps we are looking for one stop, direct service between MDW and MCO. So let's dial up door number three here and go with America West via their Columbus hub.
Jan 18, 2021, 2:24 pm
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77- BOS-XXX-CZM, 1992 — not a 320, not AA via DFW or NW via MEM, smaller than a 72S ... I’ll offer United with an A319 via Washington Dulles/IAD
85- OKC-XXX-YYY-SEA, 1997 — not a 735 or a 73G, not UA or CO, not via IAH, DEN, PDX, or SMF ...one more option in the 737 family is Southwest with a -300; WN has long been known for — shall we say, non-linear — single-plane trips; OKC-SEA via Phoenix/PHX and Oakland/OAK would certainly be in their operational scheme
Delta with a 727-200 stopping at Salt Lake City/SLC and Los Angeles/LAX
85- OKC-XXX-YYY-SEA, 1997 — not a 735 or a 73G, not UA or CO, not via IAH, DEN, PDX, or SMF ...
Delta with a 727-200 stopping at Salt Lake City/SLC and Los Angeles/LAX
Last edited by jrl767; Jan 18, 2021 at 2:31 pm Reason: noticed additional info in Post 21425
Jan 18, 2021, 2:26 pm
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BEA operated a single daily Trident into Manchester from London Heathrow. It's showing as a Y class only operation.. Here's the schedule:
BEA BE 4054 London (LHR) 800a-845a Manchester (MAN) Trident
BEA BE 4054 London (LHR) 800a-845a Manchester (MAN) Trident
Anyone interested in how UK holiday airlines handled their operations from all the different oddball departure points may be interested in this recent discussion in another Pplace. Including extensive use of the "W" expression, which fortunately I've just described
UK Charter Airlines - how did crewing for the regional airports work ? - PPRuNe Forums
Jan 18, 2021, 2:57 pm
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82. (1992) If you’re looking to travel from Chicago’s south side to Orlando, Florida, there’s only one airline to call with three almost daily flights between Midway and Orlando. The correct answer requires only the name of the airline.
It's not Kiwi International or ATA. Or Southwest or Northwest or Delta... Or even Air Ceylon...
Well, Monty, I'm scratching my head a bit concerning this one (kinda like Drew Brees last night after throwing several interceptions thus ending the season for the N.O. Saints). And I note the word "nonstop" does not appear in your question....so perhaps we are looking for one stop, direct service between MDW and MCO. So let's dial up door number three here and go with America West via their Columbus hub.
Sorry about your Saints, JL. I had the game on though I wasn't actually watching it. Drew Brees' eleven recently broken ribs notwithstanding, it would appear his arm is shot for any passes longer than 20 yards. Whether that is a temporary affliction or the result of father time and accumulated injuries I don't know. Any of us who remember the days of Saints "fans" showing up with paper bags over their heads would love to see the Saints win another Championship, so hopefully free agency and the draft will be fortuitous to the organization during the off season. And hopefully Jameis Winston has been paying attention while riding the pine.
As to the question at hand, the three flights are indeed nonstop. As with all of my past questions, if a stop is involved per direct flight, I will always ask for that stop as part of the correct answer. As to the airline in question, all flights were operated with Boeing equipment. And so, we're again at that point where I get to pose my favorite request here at the OTAQ&D:
Please, guess again!
It's not Kiwi International or ATA. Or Southwest or Northwest or Delta... Or even Air Ceylon...
Well, Monty, I'm scratching my head a bit concerning this one (kinda like Drew Brees last night after throwing several interceptions thus ending the season for the N.O. Saints
). And I note the word "nonstop" does not appear in your question....so perhaps we are looking for one stop, direct service between MDW and MCO. So let's dial up door number three here and go with America West via their Columbus hub.Sorry about your Saints, JL. I had the game on though I wasn't actually watching it. Drew Brees' eleven recently broken ribs notwithstanding, it would appear his arm is shot for any passes longer than 20 yards. Whether that is a temporary affliction or the result of father time and accumulated injuries I don't know. Any of us who remember the days of Saints "fans" showing up with paper bags over their heads would love to see the Saints win another Championship, so hopefully free agency and the draft will be fortuitous to the organization during the off season. And hopefully Jameis Winston has been paying attention while riding the pine.
As to the question at hand, the three flights are indeed nonstop. As with all of my past questions, if a stop is involved per direct flight, I will always ask for that stop as part of the correct answer. As to the airline in question, all flights were operated with Boeing equipment. And so, we're again at that point where I get to pose my favorite request here at the OTAQ&D:
Please, guess again!
Last edited by Seat 2A; Jan 18, 2021 at 3:07 pm
Jan 18, 2021, 3:22 pm
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77. (1992) You love Cozumel! You and your family have vacationed there five out of the last eight years and this year will make your sixth visit. Normally you’d have to make a connection somewhere, but not this year. There’s a new one-stop direct flight that’ll get you into Cozumel by midday. Better yet, you’ll even be served a snack and lunch enroute. Identify the airline, the enroute stop and the aircraft please.
BOS-XXX-CZM, 1992 — not a 320, not AA via DFW or NW via MEM, smaller than a 72S ... I’ll offer United with an A319 via Washington Dulles/IAD
It was not United via IAD. Nor was the aircraft manufactured by Airbus.
85. (1997) You need to fly your mother up to Seattle from her home in Oklahoma City so that she can see her granddaughter graduate cum laude from The University of Washington. Last time she visited she had a lamentable experience while connecting through Denver where her luggage got lost for three weeks! Her return flight through Salt Lake City wasn’t much better. Aren’t there any nonstops? she pleaded. Sorry Mom, no. However, there is a single direct flight every day. You’ll make two stops along the way but neither you nor your baggage will have to get off the plane until you reach Seattle. Identify the airline, the two enroute stops and the aircraft type.
OKC-XXX-YYY-SEA, 1997 — not a 735 or a 73G, not UA or CO, not via IAH, DEN, PDX, or SMF ... Delta with a 727-200 stopping at Salt Lake City/SLC and Los Angeles/LAX
It was not Delta. Nor did the flight route through SLC or LAX. Additionally, the aircraft of record was not manufactured in the Pacific Northwest.
BOS-XXX-CZM, 1992 — not a 320, not AA via DFW or NW via MEM, smaller than a 72S ... I’ll offer United with an A319 via Washington Dulles/IAD
It was not United via IAD. Nor was the aircraft manufactured by Airbus.
85. (1997) You need to fly your mother up to Seattle from her home in Oklahoma City so that she can see her granddaughter graduate cum laude from The University of Washington. Last time she visited she had a lamentable experience while connecting through Denver where her luggage got lost for three weeks! Her return flight through Salt Lake City wasn’t much better. Aren’t there any nonstops? she pleaded. Sorry Mom, no. However, there is a single direct flight every day. You’ll make two stops along the way but neither you nor your baggage will have to get off the plane until you reach Seattle. Identify the airline, the two enroute stops and the aircraft type.
OKC-XXX-YYY-SEA, 1997 — not a 735 or a 73G, not UA or CO, not via IAH, DEN, PDX, or SMF ... Delta with a 727-200 stopping at Salt Lake City/SLC and Los Angeles/LAX
It was not Delta. Nor did the flight route through SLC or LAX. Additionally, the aircraft of record was not manufactured in the Pacific Northwest.
Jan 18, 2021, 3:30 pm
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82. (1992) If you’re looking to travel from Chicago’s south side to Orlando, Florida, there’s only one airline to call with three almost daily flights between Midway and Orlando. The correct answer requires only the name of the airline.
Could this be Braniff (III)?
It is not. The airline we're looking for is still flying!
Could this be Braniff (III)?
It is not. The airline we're looking for is still flying!
Jan 18, 2021, 4:12 pm
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75- "not an A319/320" and "smaller than a 72S" combine to say we're in the 737 family; USAir wasn't operating to Mexico in '92, so I think we're looking at Continental ... a -300 via Newark/EWR
85- mention of "not Boeing" points to a MadDog, which points to Reno Air, which would have stopped in Las Vegas/LAS on the way to their namesake hub ... just for grins, I'll guess an -87
85- mention of "not Boeing" points to a MadDog, which points to Reno Air, which would have stopped in Las Vegas/LAS on the way to their namesake hub ... just for grins, I'll guess an -87
Jan 18, 2021, 5:55 pm
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77. (1992) You love Cozumel! You and your family have vacationed there five out of the last eight years and this year will make your sixth visit. Normally you’d have to make a connection somewhere, but not this year. There’s a new one-stop direct flight that’ll get you into Cozumel by midday. Better yet, you’ll even be served a snack and lunch enroute. Identify the airline, the enroute stop and the aircraft please.
"not an A319/320" and "smaller than a 72S" combine to say we're in the 737 family; USAir wasn't operating to Mexico in '92, so I think we're looking at Continental ... a -300 via Newark/EWR
While the aircraft of record was indeed smaller than a 727-200, it was not a member of the 737 family. Additionally, the flight was not operated by Continental and did not route through Newark. The mystery deepens...
85. (1997) You need to fly your mother up to Seattle from her home in Oklahoma City so that she can see her granddaughter graduate cum laude from The University of Washington. Last time she visited she had a lamentable experience while connecting through Denver where her luggage got lost for three weeks! Her return flight through Salt Lake City wasn’t much better. Aren’t there any nonstops? she pleaded. Sorry Mom, no. However, there is a single direct flight every day. You’ll make two stops along the way but neither you nor your baggage will have to get off the plane until you reach Seattle. Identify the airline, the two enroute stops and the aircraft type.
Mention of "not Boeing" points to a MadDog, which points to Reno Air, which would have stopped in Las Vegas/LAS on the way to their namesake hub ... just for grins, I'll guess an -87
How on earth did an airplane not built as a WWII fighter ever acquire the appellation "Mad Dog"? I get the MD part, but the rest just doesn't add up. But so what? Mad Dog it is along with Reno Air operating an MD80 of some variant along the route you've proffered. Good work! Here's the schedule:
Reno Air QQ 331 Oklahoma City(OKC) 740a-815a Las Vegas (LAS) 900a-1010a Reno (RNO) 1040a-1220p Seattle (SEA) MD-80 Mo Tu Sa Su
"not an A319/320" and "smaller than a 72S" combine to say we're in the 737 family; USAir wasn't operating to Mexico in '92, so I think we're looking at Continental ... a -300 via Newark/EWR
While the aircraft of record was indeed smaller than a 727-200, it was not a member of the 737 family. Additionally, the flight was not operated by Continental and did not route through Newark. The mystery deepens...
85. (1997) You need to fly your mother up to Seattle from her home in Oklahoma City so that she can see her granddaughter graduate cum laude from The University of Washington. Last time she visited she had a lamentable experience while connecting through Denver where her luggage got lost for three weeks! Her return flight through Salt Lake City wasn’t much better. Aren’t there any nonstops? she pleaded. Sorry Mom, no. However, there is a single direct flight every day. You’ll make two stops along the way but neither you nor your baggage will have to get off the plane until you reach Seattle. Identify the airline, the two enroute stops and the aircraft type.
Mention of "not Boeing" points to a MadDog, which points to Reno Air, which would have stopped in Las Vegas/LAS on the way to their namesake hub ... just for grins, I'll guess an -87
How on earth did an airplane not built as a WWII fighter ever acquire the appellation "Mad Dog"? I get the MD part, but the rest just doesn't add up. But so what? Mad Dog it is along with Reno Air operating an MD80 of some variant along the route you've proffered. Good work!
Here's the schedule:Reno Air QQ 331 Oklahoma City(OKC) 740a-815a Las Vegas (LAS) 900a-1010a Reno (RNO) 1040a-1220p Seattle (SEA) MD-80 Mo Tu Sa Su